All of drbrake 🔸's Comments + Replies

It's certainly worthwhile that this helps less-well-supported non-profits reach a larger audience, but I find the current ranked list somewhat disturbing and disappointing. As an "EA 1.0" person these are not my priorities and I think they would puzzle many outsiders.

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NickLaing
From your perspective might be good at least that strategic voting from global health folks had got AMF up there lol.

I am sure this has been answered somewhere and it really is a question of more historical relevance but if there's one thing that people with any knowledge of "original" effective altruism knows, it is that anti-malarial bed nets are either the most or nearly the most effective global health intervention. (I believe anti-malarial vaccination may have inched past bed nets by some calculations). AMF has been at or near the top of the charts as a recommended organization tackling this for several years. There are many very wealthy people who claim to have an ... (read more)

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Peter Johnson
I just wanted to second this comment and would love to be pointed to good resources on the reasons. I stopped being involved in EA during 2016ish era conversations around starting to target mostly whales (the most wealthy funders) and a shift towards x-risk as the most important cause area. It was repeatedly promised this strategy would lead to such a wellspring of funds from aligned billionaires that the most important short-term cause areas would not suffer from any relative decrease in funding than if those (public health, global poverty, etc.) had remained the focus. Does anyone know what happened to that?

I notice it receives/pays in Euros, a currency my credit card and bank don't support "natively". Is this liable to cause you problems with your costs? Would you need to support more currencies? Even if the underlying currency were the Euro, you should probably provide an option to see the amounts to be paid in the user's preferred currency as that makes it easier for people to visualise.

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Patrick Mayerhofer 🔸
Totally agree! It was easiest for implementation at the moment to go with one currency. We will soon add other currencies to make it easier and more user friendly for people from different parts of the world :) 

It would be nice if there was a way to replace a normal "peer payment" app with GoodWallet so that I could receive a payment as before but with a percentage for effective giving either prompted to the payer or automatically subtracted from what I receive and given to my chosen charity.

Can you afford to continue to sustain the transaction cost of the donations indefinitely if this became popular? What is the percentage it actually costs you/someone to receive and pass on a payment?

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Patrick Mayerhofer 🔸
This could be a great use for a GoodWallet API integration!  There are multiple pathways that we can go, once we can't afford the transaction costs anymore. And I am looking forward for that problem to have ;) We are currently paying standard PayPal transaction fees, but that will soon change when we implement a more cost effective payment processor. Some options for covering the transaction costs would be: * Allow users to donate a percentage of their payment directly to the GoodWallet and educate/visualize how much would be the minimum to cover fees. That is a common solution of many non for-profits. * Put the money that temporarily sits in someone's GoodWallet account before being donated into a savings account. This will generate extra cash through interest and could potentially cover fees.  These are just some options, but we will consider options in more detail when we hit that roadblock :) 
drbrake 🔸
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90% disagree

Depopulation is Bad

There are some realities about the problems caused by populations of the size we have now that simply cannot be "technologied around". The wealth of the world is profoundly unequally distributed and if we address this, overall consumption would radically increase as would the burden on the planet's resources. And there are limits to our ability to move around and find space for this many people to live (mainly in cities) in a comfortable way. Population decline needs to be managed to ensure it does not happen too quickly for our systems

... (read more)

I think @conflictaverse is on to something with his notion of "brand confusion". I wish there was an easy, widely understood shorthand I could use that would indicate I am inspired by the "early" EA project although I am now concerned that the movement's centre of gravity seems to have drifted both organizationally and philosophically in directions I am not comfortable with. I am reluctant to abandon the EA label altogether, leaving it to that "wing" of the movement.

I hope you are right but you should be aware that the opposite may also be true. Depending on the weights we give AI in valuing human and non-human thriving, AI may discover new ways that would make humans happier at the expense of non-humans. There are people and organizations who would assign a moral weight of zero to the suffering of some of even all non-humans, and if those people win the argument then you might end up with an AI which is less to your taste than one that just emerges organically with basic guide rails.

 For example, leaving aside s... (read more)

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Ronen Bar
I agree there is the opposite danger as well, and perhaps we have yet to known those dangers and new conflict of interests between humans and animals...  I assume with ASI, the risk of possible future digital minds being in a conflict of interests with humans is bigger than for animals. 

While this is an important question to consider, it is by no means clear that we could get any short term consensus about how moral alignment should be implemented. In practical terms, if an AI (AGI) intelligence is more long lived and/or more able to thrive and bring benefits to others of its kind, wouldn't it be moral to value its existence over that of a human being? Yet I think you would struggle to get AI scientists to embed that value choice into their code. Similarly, looking 'down' the scale, in decisions where the lives or wellbeing of humans had ... (read more)

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Ronen Bar
I think this is exactly why we need research building a vision of how a sentient centric ASI - that works with humanity to gradually improve lives for everyone - behaves. As humanity gets stronger and more able to control the outside environment and inside body and mind, we may see less conflict of interests between animals and humans, and this can creates a monumental chance to take a stewardship role in relation to non-humans. 

This does not address one possible use of alternative proteins - feeding them to domesticated carnivorous animals. Obviously many EA folks might prefer that we don’t eat such animals or have them as pets but if we do it would be better if their food did not have an adverse climate impact or did not involve more animal suffering (or both!). Alt proteins here would not need to have the same taste as the foods they replace, be tasty to humans, or pass strict safety guidelines - they would just need to be minimally acceptable to (and digestible by/safe for) their ‘target’ animals. I recall those breeding insects as food (not alt proteins of course) are targeting this marketplace. Any thoughts? Research? Evidence of success?

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Samuel Mazzarella 🔸
I think this is potentially a really important use for alternative proteins. While plant-based pet food has been around for some time, it hasn't quite caught on, and I don't want to wade into the debate around whether cats can thrive on protein from plants. This is why cultivated meat in particular might be really valuable here. It also makes intuitive sense that people might be willing to feed cultivated meat to other animals, even if they have concerns about eating it themselves, and that this might eventually help to normalize cultivated meat in general. That being said, I couldn't find any good research or evidence of success in this area, which is why I didn't delve into it here. It seems like a promising area for research, and now that there is a limited amount of cultivated meat on sale as dog food in the UK perhaps we will start to get some data.
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Matt_Sharp
This is happening! Last month in the UK dog food containing cultured chicken meat went on sale - albeit so far just as a trial in a single pet shop. 

You are right - I wrote in anger and take that part back (have edited above).

The EA movement has no single leader but communication and recruitment are of course vital to its continuation, so there are mechanisms for senior figures to make their views known. It is not necessary for the movement to "take sides" in particular political battles, but the fact that Musk has funded EA work, is friends with key EA figures and has taken actions (like the all-out attack on USAID) that run directly counter to mainstream EA thinking suggests to me EA needs to make its concerns clear.

If a public figure or organization (political or not) is ali... (read more)

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Davidmanheim
Wait, did you want them to "denounce" the choice of shutting down USAID, or the individual?

"it does matter that there is one credible environmental org aligned with Democrats (there are also Republican climate orgs, like ClearPath) that pushes for it, it can make the difference between this being entirely dismissed as fossil fuel or Manchin demand to being an option that has support from clearly climate-motivated actors. "... actually, this is just one more reason why what the CATF is doing is retrograde. Supporting and aiding development of CCS for, say, cement making is OK in my book and there is plenty of room for experiments there that are d... (read more)

This is the kind of thing I would like to see more of. I would not invest myself because all investments seem to be in individual projects - I would want to be able to invest in some fashion in a "basket" of companies and/or projects (ideally through a large, well-known investment company like Vanguard...)

I know your long run goals are the least "binding" but I would encourage you to be a little more cautious and evidence-based in your approach to growth as an intervention. Economic growth clearly offers benefits overall in developing countries but it would surely be safer to say your objective should be to study the relationship between economic growth and human development and work to understand the circumstances in which aid that enhances economic growth in particular circumstances is more effective than alternative forms of aid.

You've reminded me about Dollar Street: https://www.gapminder.org/dollar-street/matrix which does the same thing as Children Just Like Me but online and interactive.

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Julia_Wise🔸
Wow, that's a great resource. The book is different in tone in that it doesn't explicitly point out things that are lacking (like running water) in a given household, and I don't remember picking up on the class differences as a kid - partly because we looked most at the children with prettiest clothes! So definitely more in the "global solidarity" vein more than the "look how different things are" vein.

Hadn't thought of that - seems a likely explanation!

The discussion about Fistulas was here https://blog.givewell.org/2008/08/20/fistula/

In one of the discussions, a founder of Operation Fistula turned up. It's a horrible-sounding condition - described in the disability weighting as "has an abnormal opening between her vagina and rectum causing flatulence and feces to escape through the vagina. The person gets infections in her vagina, and has pain when urinating." It's caused if you don't have access to a C section when giving birth and can be remedied for $288. (The report's a little unclear, suggesting that the operation value lasts for 10 years - perhaps it stops working? Perhaps the lifespan of typical sufferers is in any case low?) Anyway, worth looking at if you are interested in this area.

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Julia_Wise🔸
I wonder if it's because some women have subsequent births that re-open the problem?
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drbrake 🔸
The discussion about Fistulas was here https://blog.givewell.org/2008/08/20/fistula/

Thanks for the additional readings. I think Paul Dolan is asking the right questions. I am disappointed that after a promising initial discussion eight years ago, Holden doesn't seem to have spoken again on the subject and to the best of my knowledge there is still no way on GiveWell to put different weights on "impact" to give different results.

I don't understand your last paragraph though. DALYs don't seem to measure economic effects on others at all, so if you do start to consider them wouldn't that be a big argument to make some DALYs negative?

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rk
Sorry, I didn't communicate what I meant well there. It might be the case that DALYs somewhat faithfully track both (a) the impact of conditions on subjective wellbeing and (b) the impact of conditions on economic contribution, even if they're not explicitly intended to track (b). It might also be the case that efforts to extend DALYs to more faithfully track (a) for things that are worse than death would mean that they tracked (b) less well in those cases. Then, it could be the case that it's better to stick with the current way of doing things. I don't actually think the above is particularly likely (and yet less so after writing it out) and even in the case that it captures something correct for some moral frameworks, it probably looks different under others.

NB smile.amazon.com works like smile.amazon.co.uk. Having written to Amazon Smile they responded: " We are currently working on expanding the AmazonSmile program to other countries.

You are correct in stating that customers can currently support organizations in one of the 50 United States, Germany, Austria, or the United Kingdom."

And moreover it doesn't just improve vision, it removes a source of intense pain.

A note on OPIS - might I suggest finding a way to separate your work on animal suffering from that on human suffering - at least for potential funders? Of course I can understand that you see work on both as important but there will be potential donors/supporters (myself included) who would be very inclined to support your advocacy work on easing provision of opioids for humans but who don't see the relief of animal suffering as a priority and who would not wish their support for one to be used for the other.

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jonleighton
Apologies for replying only now. We are happy to dedicate funds to a specific cause area when requested, such as advocacy for pain relief, which in any case represents much of our current focus. Even more general advocacy to promote the ethic of non-suffering in policy-making and decision-making invariably puts much of the emphasis on human suffering and pain relief.

I applaud you for your initiative in taking this forward and I do think you seem to have identified an important gap in the existing EA approaches. They appear to see lives saved as the key metric where I would at least offer potential donors/actors the chance to prioritise life quality. I wonder, however (and apologies if this has already been discussed and considered - if it has please point me to it) whether it might not be still more cost-effective to target easily cured very painful illnesses like Trachoma. See this for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16019692 which finds providing surgery costs from I$13 to I$78 per DALY averted.