All of emily.fan's Comments + Replies

I have mixed feelings about this because I don't know enough about the situation.

Conflicts:

  1. There are things that people are naturally better at and worse at, and the law of comparative advantage does make sense vs. There are things that people could get good at but don't because they don't believe in themselves and don't try aka imposters syndrome. (I think this may result in some lack of diversity in tech, STEM, EA, etc.)

I think the EA community might lean more towards trying really hard to match people with what they are good at / not bad at. I think... (read more)

EA Mental Health and nEArodivergent discord server: https://discord.gg/e6Nxy4N5xu Not super active at the moment, but it does exist.

EA Mental Health and nEArodivergent discord server: https://discord.gg/e6Nxy4N5xu Not super active at the moment, but it does exist.

This isn't exactly related to the post, but I am a little bit wary about the connotation of more students should have internships / work experience at EA Orgs rather than corporate roles.

I talked to some EAs that say that it's good for EA uni students to get a job outside of EA first. This makes me think that the issue of EA Orgs not having that many uni interns aren't actually a big problem.

Why it may be good to pursue a corporate role:

  • Mistakes made earlier in my career will be much more low stakes
  • Experiencing the world outside the EA bubble
  • Skills suc
... (read more)
4
Abby Hoskin
1y
I totally agree there is a lot of value in going corporate first. I recommend this route to many people! But it does seem unfortunate to not have the choice between EA/corporate, or have the choice set up pretty badly. 

My knee jerk reaction was also that 30-40% was an unreasonably high number, however, I kind of disagree with "Unreasonably large estimates shouldn't be allowed to frame the discussion just because we can't reject them with model evidence yet" since it's hard to know what numbers are reasonable in the first place. It also provides a good starting point to the discussion and to challenge my assumptions on why I automatically want to reject the 30-40%.

2
Karthik Tadepalli
2y
What makes 30-40% a better starting point than 90%? Or 5%?

I feel like certain populations (particularly women) tend to underestimate their abilities, so I find this comment pretty discouraging. My current take is that a lot of people think they aren't good enough for XYZ, but if they take a good stab at XYZ in an environment that is encouraging they may realize that they might be able to do XYZ after all.

I think that a lot of people naturally think that they are "not math people" when they could actually be much better at math.

And I don't think that you don't have to be the best at math or XYZ to contribute. I th... (read more)

1
Sharmake
2y
My reason is that the opposite problem usually occurs called the Dunning-Kruger effect, where dumb people or low IQ vastly overestimate what good they can do (in the EA worldview or perspective, not other perspectives) due to not realizing just how bad they are, while High IQ people underestimate themselves due to not realizing how good they are, and IQ/g-factor is both important at the statstical or group level and mostly genetic, so that's why it can be discouraging to be in an EA job. But adopting the just-world fallacy helps us nothing here. They can still be psychologically healthy, but they need to recognize their limits and not believe they can do anything they wish they can do.
5
Olivia Addy
2y
Thank you so much! I really appreciate this - it can definitely be challening to see good qualities I have sometimes...so thank you for posting this.

++ having a sociology background is great Not sure, but I think Vaidehi may have also studied Sociology at a non-Ivy+ school as well, and she seems to have done some cool stuff in the EA community too.

Not sure how relevant this comment is, but as someone who studies more technical stuff, I am honestly impressed with people who study things like sociology. The sheer number of papers and essays you guys pump out and how you have to think about large social systems honestly scares me! English / history classes were some of the hardest for me in high school!

I ... (read more)

I very much like that this post encourages inclusion of how much people are able (or willing to) contribute to EA.

It was very easy for me to talk to people telling me how important it was to have balance in my life and do some fun non-EA things, but then I would see examples of EAs who work long hours and love their work and feel like I'm not making as much of an impact as the people who make EA their life.

I think this post clarifies part of the confusion because it makes it explicit that it is healthy for the EA community to have both, and just because I ... (read more)

Articles like this are hard to write because the cause of stress and the solution for stress varies for different individuals, and you did seem to try to put the "taking stress personally" as a section which is good, but perhaps I think there could be more. Or perhaps I felt like this article didn't seem to speak to me personally as much. However, it is evidence that you put in a lot of work to write up this article.

Thoughts on why this article didn't really speak to me as much.

I do think that underlying causes matter a lot, and would appreciate if there ... (read more)

2
Ben Williamson
2y
Appreciate these thoughts. We're planning a more tailored model for our upcoming procrastination report (find the category that seems to best fit the cause of your procrastination and then skip to the solutions that fit best with that category) - might be a little more along the lines of what you're suggesting here. (also a general thank you for leaving detailed feedback on things like this - genuinely very helpful)

This comment is late, but anyway...

Though I think there is value to having a more comprehensive survey like the one you have, I do want to pitch having a shorter survey for general comments with maybe 1 textbox.

The survey could be useful to collect new ideas, or just quick thoughts people wanted to share to Effective Self-Help. That way whenever someone has a new idea, they don't have to click through a bunch of buttons on whether or not they've read the Effective Self-Help articles. I know that there is an option to email, but I find myself much more aver... (read more)

1
Ben Williamson
2y
Thanks for this! We do have a contact form on our website (https://effectiveselfhelp.org/contact) but I don't think I highlighted that here or that it's necessarily that obvious. Think I'll start emphasising that though instead of an email link so thanks for the prompt :)

You can share screen on gathertown (I think I managed to do it before.) However, it seems like in the current gathertown setup (the way the desks are arranged and where videos can be streamed), I haven't really found a way to see other people's videos while working in the desk working area, though you can work in other areas and maybe see nearby people's videos.

I do have a shameless plug to the EA coworking discord server though: https://discord.gg/5FGY4PyEcT where you can share screen! :)

2
Arepo
2y
Can confirm Gathertown allows screensharing - I'm doing it as I type - and we've actually just been setting up some of the desk pods to allow communication with other people in the same pod (you can also cluster round the same desk, though that does feel a bit cramped for more than two). Btw, I'm hoping that the Discord and Gather servers will have a positive sum effect where they link to each other and collaboratively increase the number of EAs who get into online coworking. We've placed a prominent link to the Discord server near the entrance to the Gather space :)
1[comment deleted]2y

There is also an EA coworking discord server: https://discord.gg/5FGY4PyEcT

You can share screen + there are pomodoro bots that people can sync up working/taking breaks together if they want to.

One great thing about the EA coworking discord is that you can get to know people can connect with them because you have their discord handle :)

I run the EA coworking discord server and was curious if you would be open to collaboration opportunities. At the moment, there seems to be at least one person on the coworking server every other day if not every day. Here's the link to the EA coworking server: https://discord.gg/5FGY4PyEcT

Possibilities:

  • having regular coworking sessions on the EA coworking server
  • matching people on the EA coworking server to be accountability buddies
  • having daily check-ins on the server
  • hosting events about executive dysfunction / productivity

Let me know what you think!

3
Gavin
2y
Sounds good to me

Automating processes for community building.

Excerpt from this Google Doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/15ES8_Ah5hWjaiwprGfZpQMHx0AmfDGam6rAWWRGb6lY/edit:

  • automating fellowship application solicitation and automating fellowship cohort matching process (just as MIT does dorm matching). automate airtable.
  • writing emails automatically. pick a template (from a giant decision tree on a wiki), automatically send to a list of emails, fills in title, time, date.
  • automatic discussion group setups
  • automatically send followups with mail merge, etc. to keep in to
... (read more)
1
emily.fan
2y
@Chris Lakin?

I'm surprised that this is the case because from what I've seen at EA meetups in both the Bay Area and Boston is that the majority of people seem to be software engineers. Is it because the software engineers who go to the Bay Area / Boston meetups may not have as much ML background? Is it because the software engineers in EA meetups don't realize that this is a problem?

4
Andy Jones
2y
I think it's a combination of * lack of awareness - which this post was aimed at solving * misalignment in skillset - not particularly ML, but numerical and distributed systems experience * our specifically looking for very, very good software engineers

Same here. I feel like I don't have the executive function to do so since I tend to be interested in a bunch of things at once and generally have generalist tendencies. I'd also be curious to hear more about the niche of being a generalist in the EA community, since they do provide value in our society.

Just wanted to +1 blue blocking glasses.

Just to clarify, we RSVP on Facebook? Thanks! :)

I didn't realize that this existed until now, is there a way for this to be more visible? For instance, incorporated in the notifications settings (where I spent way too much time trying to find this a couple of months ago)? Is there a way to auto-add people who join the EA forum to this mailing list and unsubscribe as necessary?

3
Aaron Gertler
3y
Thanks for asking this!  The mailing list being run through Mailchimp makes certain kinds of automated integration difficult (for example, it would be a lot of work to allow people to remove themselves from the mailing list by turning off a "receive the Forum Digest" setting).  I currently promote the digest in a lot of different places, on and off the Forum, but our next step is to edit the signup process so that people become aware of it the moment they create accounts. That's waiting on some broader architectural changes, but should be live in a few weeks to a few months. We might also add the digest to the sidebar at some point, though that space is valuable and it might be wrong to put something there that won't be relevant to any user more than once.

I, like Holly, am also interested in exploring this, though have not thought rigorously about this. 

  • A lot of people who are in power might be running low on sleep. This can jeopardize our future and is relevant to improving institutional decision making
  • (As Holly said) It could be good to promote sleep widely in EA circles given that we want to be optimal and it seems quite tractible to change a culture in a smaller community vs. the whole world. (Although it is my impression that EA orgs already encourage healthy work / sleep habits.) 

    Now we have the question: Should the EA community encourage sleep within the community more so than it does now?

Thank you so much for the insights! We've tried longer applications to ensure that the fellows are more engaged due to bad experiences of fellows dropping out / derailing the conversation in the past. However, the point about counterfactual impact has nudged me to shorten our application!

2
alex lawsen (previously alexrjl)
3y
I agree that exactly that tradeoff is important! There's definitely a balance to be struck, and you certainly wouldn't want to exclude those who already very aligned on the basis of low counterfactual impact, as the participation of those people will likely be very positive for other members!

Thank you so much for the insights! We've tried longer applications to ensure that the fellows are more engaged due to bad experiences of fellows dropping out / derailing the conversation in the past. However, the point about high-potential people being busy has convinced me to shorten our application!

What are the community's thoughts on making the application super long so that only the most interested people apply (and basically accept everyone who applies)? Would this be considered selective in the same way as rejecting people?

3
Asaf Ifergan
3y
I don't have a strong opinion about this in the context of fellowships, but I can refer to setting a high entry bar in recruiting community members and volunteers in general, and specifically, by asking them to invest time in reading content. I hope this helps and not completely off-topic. Though EA is a complex set of ideas and we want people to have a good understanding of what it's all about, demanding a lot from new people can be fairly offputting and counterproductive. From my experience, people who are of high potential to be both highly-engaged and of high value to the community are often both quite busy people and relatively normal human beings.     As for the first point, if you sent someone a long list of content, he/she might just say "this is too demanding, can't handle this right now". As for the second point, we have to accept that people have much shorter attention spans than we would like to imagine, especially if they are not really familiar with the content.    Me and Gidon Kadosh from EA Israel have thought long and hard about how to lower the perceived effort of people who come to our website by creating this "Learn More" page on our website. Though it's in Hebrew, you might be able to understand what we tried to do here on a structural level. We plan to make it even more attractive for readers, possibly by splitting this page into individual pages focusing on a specific subject, and allowing the user to conveniently move on to the next/previous subject - This way we both lower perceived effort of reading this content and create a feeling of progress for the user.     I'm really not sure there is a correlation between the willingness of someone to invest a lot of time in reading lots of content or filling a long application before they have a clear view of the value in doing this. Going back to recruiting new community members and volunteers, there are brilliant people who are value-aligned, but just don't have the time (or are not willing) t
7
alex lawsen (previously alexrjl)
3y
It's an interesting idea, but even if this ends up producing very engaged participants you have to be careful. If you (deliberately and successfully) only select for people who are super keen, you end up with a super keen cohort but potentially only minimal counterfactual impact as all those you selected would have ended up really involved anyway. This was briefly mentioned in the post and I think is worth exploring further.

A possible counter-argument to this strategy is that neoliberalism appeals to people with power (businesses with $$ that don't want to get regulated). Very interesting read though!