All of inconvenient's Comments + Replies

This would be bad, if true, given that it is essentially the same complaint that was levelled against Julia Wise, of community health, by Alexey Guzey previously.

Have you asked GPI and FHI's macrostrategy team whether they have suggestions for kinds of prioritization research (if any) that you could usefully do? This is a difficult kind of research to do, and LEAN/SHIC/Peter don't have a track record of generating important prioritization considerations in the same way as these other organizations.

7
Peter Wildeford
6y
Give us a moment to establish a track record first. We're just starting. ;) We have not talked with GPI and FHI but are moderately familiar with their work. I think we're suggesting a modestly different approach and research agenda. We'll see over the next few months if it pans out to anything useful.

The criteria I used for making these grants was as follows: (1) Have clear “room for more funding” ... (2) Have a clear risk of not meeting their funding goal... (3) Clear a bar of being “impactful enough”...represent outstanding opportunities that I think are better than the community average

I am very uninformed about organizations... working on existential risk and far future. My impression, however, is that OpenPhil has done a good job filling up the funding gaps in this area and that there are very few organizations that would meet the criteria I’m

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0
VinceB
6y
OP wasnt refering to the orgs he was donating to but a seperate problem domain he doesnt have expertise in.
3
Peter Wildeford
6y
I can't tell if this comment is positive or negative toward my criteria. Would you mind elaborating?

The problem is that some EAs would have the amount of life in the universe reduced to zero permanently. (And don't downvote this unless you personally know this to be false - it is unfortunately true)

If not, then it it is a necessary example, plain and simple.

But it is not necessary - as you can see elsewhere in this thread, I raised an issue without providing an example at all.

"An issue"? Austen was referring to problems where an organization affiliates with particular organizations that cause terror risk, which you don't seem to have d... (read more)

0
kbog
7y
It's a spurious standard. You seem to be drawing a line between mass termination of life and permanent mass termination of life just to make sure that FRI falls on the wrong side of a line. It seems like either could support 'terrorism'. Animal liberationists actually do have a track record of engaging in various acts of violence and disruption in the past. The fact that their interests aren't as comprehensive as some NUs' are doesn't change this. I'm not sure why the fact that my comment didn't discuss terrorism implies that it fails to be a good example of raising a point without an example. ""Not causing harm" should be one of the EA values?" Though it probably falls perfectly well under commitment to others anyway.

He wrote a single sentence pointing out that the parent comment was giving FRI an unfair and unnecessary treatment. I don't see what's "ill founded" about that.

What's ill-founded is that if you want to point out a problem where people affiliate with NU orgs that promote values which increase risk of terror, then it's obviously necessary to name the orgs. Calling it "unnecessary" to treat that org is then a blatant non-sequitur, whether you call it an argument or an assertion is up to you.

Why is it more important now than in normal

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3
kbog
7y
But they do not increase the risk of terror. Have you studied terrorism? Do you know about where it comes from and how to combat it? As someone who actually has (US military, international relations) I can tell you that this whole thing is beyond silly. Radicalization is a process, not a mere manner of reading philosophical papers, and it involves structural factors among disenfranchised people and communities as well as the use of explicitly radicalizing media. And it is used primarily as a tool for a broad variety of political ends, which could easily include the ends which all kinds of EAs espouse. Very rarely is destruction itself the objective of terrorism. Also, terrorism generally happens as a result of actors feeling that they have a lack of access to legitimate channels of influencing policy. The way that people have leapt to discussing this topic without considering these basic facts shows that they don't have the relevant expertise to draw conclusions on this topic. But Austen did not say "Not supporting terrorism should be an EA value." He said that not causing harm should be an EA value. There are many distinctions between EA and whatever you mean by the (new?) "post-fact age", but responding seriously to what essentially amounts to trolling doesn't seem like a necessary one. That doesn't make any sense. Why should we focus more on things just because they're hard? Doesn't it make more sense to put effort somewhere where things are easier, so that we get more return on our efforts? But that seems wrong: one person's complaints about NU, for instance, isn't one of the most important issues. At the same time, we have perfectly good discussions of very important facts about cause prioritization in this forum where people are much more mature and reasonable than, say, Austen here is. So it seems like there isn't a general relationship between how important a fact is and how disruptive commentators are when discussing it. At the very minimum, one might s

Exactly, despite the upvotes, Soeren's argument is ill-founded. It seems really important in situations like this that people vote on what they believe to be true based on reason and evidence, not based on uninformed guesses and motivated reasoning.

2
kbog
7y
Soeren didn't give an argument. He wrote a single sentence pointing out that the parent comment was giving FRI an unfair and unnecessary treatment. I don't see what's "ill founded" about that. Why is it more important now than in normal discourse? If someone decides to be deliberately obtuse and disrespectful, isn't that the best time to revert to tribalism and ignore what they have to say?

I really don't like how you are accusing people without evidence of intentionally promoting violence. This is borderline libel. I agree that someone could take their ideology and use it to justify violence, but I see no reason to believe that they are intentionally trying to "entice" such actions.

Indeed, must focus on the battles we can win. There are two traps. One is to make false accusations. Currently, few negative utilitarians are promoting terrorism, and we should not make accusations that would suggest otherwise. Two is to stir up contr... (read more)

If it was the case that FRI was accurately characterized here, then do we know of other EA orgs that would promote mass termination of life? If not, then it it is a necessary example, plain and simple.

3
kbog
7y
Sure. MFA, ACE and other animal charities plan to drastically reduce or even eliminate entirely the population of farm animals. And poverty reduction charities drastically reduce the number of wild animals. But it is not necessary - as you can see elsewhere in this thread, I raised an issue without providing an example at all.
1
Austen_Forrester
7y
It's the only negative utilitarianism promoting group I know of. Does anyone know of others (affiliated with EA or not)?