All of Nicholas_Bregan's Comments + Replies

The problem with demonstrations is that half of the time, people demonstrate against each other's causes. Or just for causes with unclear sign or scope of impact.

The whole thing has huge overhead; it blocks the streets and disrupts everyone, and additional police have to be paid to secure the whole thing.

On the other hand, there is no doubt some demonstrations have been of great historical significance.

So make sure this is worth your time, compared to just sending 20 bucks to some random effective charity,

I'm not an effective altruist and don't think I ever will be one. I'm here only out of curiosity and intellectual entertainment. Perhaps this allows me to give you an honest "outside" perspective. My main reasons for not donating 10% of my income or make other similar commitments:

  1. I am instinctively too egoistic and I don't like the cognitive dissonance from being a little altruistic, but not as much as I reasonably could be. I feel best when I "play for my own side" in life, am productive to get only what I want and don't think about

... (read more)
1
tomstocker
9y
Nicholas, can you please elaborate on point 3 - your thoughts and what you care about might genuinely be things that I +others collected here should be caring about or taking into account. I'm interested. Please just email me at tomstocker88@gmail.com if they're so different from humanity's preferences that they're problematic to share publicly. Thank you for posting this, even if you are egoistic (I don't know many people that aren't to some extent), you have courage / honesty, which is awesome.
5
Jess_Whittlestone
9y
Thanks for being so honest, Nicholas, really useful to hear your perspective - especially as it sounds like you've been paying a fair amount of attention to what's going on in the EA movement. I can empathise with your point 4. quite a bit and I think a fair number of others do too - it's so hard to be motivated if you're unsure about whether you're actually making a difference, and it's so hard to be sure you're making a difference, especially when we start questioning everything. For me it doesn't stop me wanting to try, but it does affect my motivation sometimes, and I'd love to know of better ways to deal with uncertainty.
2
AlasdairGives
9y
This is a thoughtful post, so thanks for making it. On the other hand, from an EA perspective I hope we don't waste too much time worrying about people like you. Put simply, you are weird. ( that is not an insult! - EA is weird and the founding communities of philosophers, students and AI/LW people who primarily make us up are even wierder). I suspect, for those of use who want to expand and grow the reach of EA we should worry about how to expand our ideas to people who cannot use "expected utility maximiser" in a sentence and would never dream of admitting that they are "too egoistic" to prefer helping others over their own feelings. There is much more potential in talking to people who have never thought hard about an issue before than those who have thought hard about it and decided to go another way.

Other bad phrases: "Saving the world" or "saving the planet". They are usually used in a context where the impact could not possibly match up with actual world-saving or planet-saving (with some exceptions).

But I also think "doing good" is problematic. It also lacks a sense of scope, and it also suffers from philosophical disagreements about the nature of the good.

Problem is, if you want to create emotional impact in an audience that is diverse in its philosophical goals, ideas about strategy and willingness to accept costs, t... (read more)

1
Kerry_Vaughan
9y
I agree with this. The problem is coming up with an alternative phrase that doesn't require some kind of in-group buy-in. I find myself often using phrases like "saving the world" or "creating a flourishing world" because I can't come up with better alternatives.

The baby's death is more likely to cause a replacement pregnancy.

But the college student's economic output is higher for 20 years, which will compound into the future (whether this is good or not depends on how the wealth is used, what indirect consequences it has, and so on).

Also I think childhood is terrible. :)

Actually, my point was that donating to the Catholic Church does more harm than good, not just that it causes harm. Perhaps you should look up how little it spends on things like poverty relief, how much money it absorbs from presenting itself as an official institution of morality while spreading supernatural superstition and promoting socially harmful policies. I would probably pay money to make the Catholic Church poorer, though certainly not at a 1:1 exchange rate.

I think the other EA causes you mention, while mixed blessings, have a much better profil... (read more)

From his email:

"When I talk to young people who seem destined for great success, I tell them to forget about charities and giving. Concentrate on your family and getting rich—which I found very hard work. I personally and the world at large are very glad you were more interested in computer software than the underprivileged when you were young. And don’t forget that those who don’t make money never become philanthropists."

There is certainly truth in this.

But not all of Wilson's giving was in areas suitable for effective altruism. In particular, d... (read more)

0
Larks
9y
Arguably donating to global health causes active harm (via the effect on fertility). Arguably veganism causes active harm (via wild animal suffering). Arguably donating to Xrisk causes active harm (ok, not so clear on the mechanism here, but I'm sure people have argued it). Yet these last three causes are EA causes. So merely 'arguably' causing active harm cannot be enough. What matters is how much actual good it does. And I think it is very plausible that the Catholic Church actually does a lot of good. Yes, perhaps donating to the Church is less effective than donating to SCI. On the other hand, it could be significantly less effective and him still have done more good with his donations than most EAs. Giving a lot more money slightly less efficiently does more good to others than giving a small amount of money very efficiently. More importantly, this doesn't really affect the argument. In general we should pay more attention to criticism when the critic is overcoming social desirability bias. And in this case, even if you disagree with his donation choices, he clearly scores very highly on altruism, which makes his criticism of our attempts to spread it all the more potent. Given

There is no overpopulation. Let's at least not use such myths to falsely frame decisions as altruistic sacrifice.

There is still low-hanging fruit in bringing gifted children online. A small percentage of kids in developing nations are potential high achievers, autodidacts and could be given access to all the world's knowledge at reasonable costs.

If you think malaria nets aren't leveraged enough to beat kidney donations, other interventions might be.

Legalizing voluntary organ markets could be most effective, since it would both make the poor richer and solve the kidney shortage. But perhaps politics is too hard to change.

Instead of asking for self-sacrifice, why not allow poor people to sell their kidneys? There should be enough willing donors if compensation is high enough. Especially the affluent recipients should be able to leverage their wealth this way. In return, the global poor would have another income option.

Is this banned? If yes, then that means the current kidney shortage is a form of artificial scarcity.

1
joshcmorrison
9y
Politically, it probably wouldn't be feasible to allow organ sales, but there are a lot of intermediate policy alternatives likely sufficient to end the shortage by supporting donors better (just to start, you could pay lost wages and travel, but you could also provide health insurance, tax credits, or an annuity to donors). If you think that's a good idea (we think it would save about 160K QALYs annually), donating your kidney gives you unique moral authority and power in advocating that policy. Also you might be interested in signing this open letter if you support benefit for donors --http://www.ustransplantopenletter.org/home.html
1
Tom_Ash
9y
I believe this is banned in many countries, including the US. I chatted to Alexander Berger of GiveWell (who's donated a kidney) about it once, and if I recall the conversation correctly he said he thought it should be legal.