All of rileyharris's Comments + Replies

I'm not exactly sure what this job actually is based on the forum post. Based on a link in the form the duties might be:

  • Oversee operational aspects of the FutureTech research project.
  • Manage project timelines, resources, and deliverables.
  • Help researchers to facilitate their work and overcome logistical challenges.
  • Coordinate with team members and external stakeholders.
  • Contribute to events, research, grant writing, project planning, budgeting, and other administrative tasks.
3
PeterSlattery
Thanks for the feedback, Riley. Sorry for the confusion. See the not very detailed job description on the MIT careers page. Probably the best and quickest way to apply is to make a submission here - just select the Junior Research Scientist/Technical Associate position (if that is the only one of interest). 

I only skimmed it but this looks like a great article, thanks for sharing!

1
Jay Luong
Do you think that consciousness will come for free? I think that it seems like a very complex phenomenon that would be hard to accidentally engineer. On top of this, the more permissive your view of consciousness (veering towards panpsychism), the less ethically important consciousness becomes (since rocks & electrons would then have moral standing too). So if consciousness is to be a ground of moral status, it needs to be somewhat rare.

I hadn't, that's an interesting idea, thanks!

2
Wei Dai
Thanks for letting me know! I have been wondering for a while why AI philosophical competence is so neglected, even compared to other subareas of what I call "ensuring a good outcome for the AI transition" (which are all terribly neglected in my view), and I appreciate your data point. Would be interested to hear your conclusions after you've thought about it.

Hello, to clarify #1 I would say:

It could be the case that future AI systems are conscious by default, and that it is difficult to build them without them being conscious.

Let me try to spell out my intuition here:

  1. If many organisms have property X, and property X is rare amongst non-organisms, then property X is evolutionarily advantageous.

  2. Consciousness meets this condition, so it is likely evolutionarily advantageous.

  3. The advantage that consciousness gives us is most likely something to do with our ability to reason, adapt behaviour, control our at

... (read more)
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Jay Luong
Ah, I think I see where you're coming from. Of your points I find #4 to be the most crucial. Would it be too egregious to summarise this notion as: (i) all of these capabilities are super useful & (ii) consciousness will [almost if not actually] "come for free" once these capabilities are sufficiently implemented in machines?

I think that AI welfare should be an EA priority, and I'm also working on it. I think this post is a good illustration of what that means, 5% seems reasonable to me. I also appreciate this post, as it has many of the core motivations for me. I recently spent several months thinking hard about the most effective philosophy PhD project I could work on, and ended up thinking that it was to work on AI consciousness.

I feel like this post is missing discussion of two reasons to build conscious AI:

1. It may be extremely costly or difficult to avoid (this may not be a good reason, but it seems plausibly like why we would do it).
2. Digital minds could have morally valuable conscious experiences, and if there is very many of them, this could be extremely good (at least on some, admittedly controversial ethical theories).

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Jay Luong
Hey! I'm not sure I see the prima facie case for #1. What makes you think that building non-conscious AI would be more resource-intensive/expensive than building conscious AI? Current AIs are most likely non-conscious. As for #2, I have heard such arguments before in other contexts (relating to meat industry) but I found them to be preposterous on the face of it.

I am a wizard. I have magically transported you back to June 15th 2024. You will have all your progress so far. The essays are due in one month.

I hadn't seen this until now, but it's good to see that you've come to the same conclusion I have. I've just started my DPhil in Philosophy and plan on working on AI mental states and welfare.

I suspect a lot of the disagreement here is about whether the singularity hypothesis is along the lines of:

1. AI becomes capable enough to do lots or most economically useful tasks.
2. AI becomes capable enough to directly manipulate and overpower all humans, regardless of our efforts to resist and steer the future in a directions that good for us. 

5
Owen Cotton-Barratt
I think of the singularity hypothesis as being along the lines of "growth will accelerate a lot". I might operationalize this as predicting that the economy will go up by more than a factor of 10 in the period of a decade. (This threshold deliberately chosen to be pretty tame by singularity predictions, but pretty wild by regular predictions.) I think this is pretty clearly stronger than your 1 but weaker than your 2. (It might be close to predicting that AI systems become much smarter than humans without access to computers or AI tools, but this is compatible with humans remaining easily and robustly in control.) I think this growth-centred hypothesis is important and deserves a name, and "singularity" is a particularly good name for it. Your 1 and 2 also seem like they could use names, but I think they're easier to describe with alternate names, like "mass automation of labour" or "existential risk from misaligned AI".

Looking at this paper now, I'm not convinced that Erdil and Besiroglu offer a good counter argument. Let me try to explain why and see if you disagree.

Their claim is about economic growth. It seems that they are exploring considerations for and against the claim that future AI systems will accelerate economic growth by an order of magnitude or more. But even if this was true, it doesn't seem like it would result in a significant chance of extinction. 

The main reason for believing the claim about economic growth doesn't apply to stronger versions of th... (read more)

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rileyharris
I suspect a lot of the disagreement here is about whether the singularity hypothesis is along the lines of: 1. AI becomes capable enough to do lots or most economically useful tasks. 2. AI becomes capable enough to directly manipulate and overpower all humans, regardless of our efforts to resist and steer the future in a directions that good for us. 

This is a cool idea, I upvoted (from -1 to 0). I'd really like to see more detailed analysis and well-documented sources to answer this question. I couldn't really tell from the post whether the numbers were about right or not. 

I worked on a report with others at Longview. We calculated that severely reducing the burden of HIV, Malaria and Tuberculosis would be around  $219 billion. Essentially, we adjusted numbers from a variety of reports from e.g. the WHO to estimate these numbers (possibly some of the same sources, it's hard to tell). This is... (read more)

3
NickLaing
Hey Riley. I think the 10 billion is on average "per disease", in the post they listed 100 billion as the number for malaria which is in the ballpark of your estimates.

I just want to add that even if people treat you different, ultimately it's a line on your CV that says "completed this degree, in this year". I don't think it makes a material difference to your opportunities at the point of completion if it took you much longer to complete.

I'm sorry to hear treatments generally haven't helped in the past. 

I sometimes find it useful to think about these things in the following way. It feels like a lot to sacrifice energy to do therapy when you're already limited in terms of energy. But if it works particularly well, maybe you'll have something like an extra day of energy a week for... well for your whole life. It might be worth doing even if it takes a lot now, and even if the odds of success are low. (Of course, in some cases the odds are so low that it isn't worth it).

I don't know much about the specifics here, my own experience has been with anxiety, depression and adhd.

One piece of advice is this: try all of the things that might help with anxiety, depression, and ME/CFS. This was mentioned by @John Salter in another comment, but it doesn't just apply to starting organisations. It is a worthwhile investment to try a range of things that might work on almost any future career path you would pursue. (So long as you don't pay severe costs if they fail). 

These lists are okay as a starting point for anxiety and depression.

2
ampersandman
Thank you for those links. I'll look through, but I'm not super hopeful, as I've trialed dozens of medications, all of which have had zero or negative effect. Not even a glimmer of improvement, apart from amphetamine, although that only worked a couple times before tolerance, and is not a practical treatment.  As for therapy, I've tried a few times, and maybe it would work if I wasn't so dang tired. But the work required for therapy takes a lot of energy I don't have. And as for ME/CFS, there aren't many effective treatments. There are a few that work in some people, like LDN or antivirals, although I'd have to find a doctor who not only believes it's a real disorder, but is up to date on the latest potential treatments, and those doctors are few and far between. I'm hopeful in the promise that a ketogenic diet could improve my symptoms. One reason is the ever increasing anecdotal and study data showing large improvements in all sorts of chronic illnesses with the diet. Another reason is that removing carbs feels very similar to the withdrawal I felt from the psychiatric medication, so I think it is possible that it is like drug withdrawal, and I would feel better after some time off of them. Unfortunately, the withdrawal is so bad and lasts so long, I can't just jump right in, so I'm very slowly tapering, just like I did with the medication.

There are other goals you could adopt. 

To learn and develop your own thinking. If that's your goal, it doesn't matter as much whether you share it, or the reception it gets. 

To share important ideas. If you're absorbing a lot of your content from the EA forum, try writing somewhere else. Other people may not have been exposed to these ideas, so you might be able to do more to improve the average quality. 

My personal hot-take is that most people should write for a different audience than than themselves. My own ideas often feel stale and obvi... (read more)

2
Aaron Graifman
Hi Riley, Thank you. I think you're right to call attention to the idea of writing for the intrinsic nature of the act. It is something I enjoy very much, and find it brings a certain quality of peace to my mind that is unlike any other. "Other people may not have been exposed to these ideas, so you might be able to do more to improve the average quality. " This is also a point that is worth taking into account and acting out. I have a Substack, which I haven't written on as much as I'd planned to simply because I wasn't certain of the quality of work I was putting out. I knew I could do better, but I guess the harm of putting out something not entirely fleshed, isn't something predictable and might not be worth worrying about. Thank you for your reply  

I don't think my comment is likely to be all that useful, but putting it here anyway. 

I personally find it difficult to pay attention to podcasts with more than 2 people. I tried to listen to the first episode for about 30 minutes and this one for about 5 minutes, and I couldn't comfortably follow them while paying attention to other tasks (walking around, cleaning, cooking etc.). 

I think it's likely that more diversity in the space is good though, as many of the most popular podcasts I see on e.g. Youtube tend to be more than two people. I suspe... (read more)

I actually think this is a pretty reasonable division now, removed the automatic upvote on my comment.

More EA success stories:

Pandemics. We have now had the first truly global pandemic in decades, perhaps ever.

Nuclear war. Thanks to recent events, the world is closer than ever to a nuclear catastrophe.

It's not all good news though. Unfortunately, poverty seems to be trending down, there's less lead in the paint, and some say AI could solve most problems despite the risks.

Summaries of papers on the nature of consciousness (focusing on artificial consciousness in particular).

A post on how EA research differs from academic research, why people who like one distrust the other, and how in the longterm academic research may be more impactful.

A post explaining what I take to be the best reply to Thorstad's skeptical paper On the Singularity Hypothesis.

Very personal and unconventional research advice that no-one told me that I would have found helpful in my first 2 years of academic research. What I would change about this advice after taking a break and then starting a PhD.

2
Cameron Meyer Shorb 🔸
This seems interesting and helpful!

I really like this! 

I feel like these actions and attitudes embody many of the virtues of effective altruism. You really genuinely wanted to help somebody, and you took personally costly actions to do so. I feel great about having people like you in the EA Community. My advice is to keep the feeling of how important you were to Tlalok's life as you do good effectively with other parts of your time and effort, knowing you are perhaps making a profound difference in many lives.

What is the timeline for announcing the result of this competition?

4
Daystar Eld
I'm finishing writing the post now :)

Was the result of this competition ever announced? I can't seem to locate it.

2
Writer
There is a single winner so far, and it will be announced with the corresponding video release. The contest is still open, though! Edit: another person claimed a bonus prize, too.

Are these fellowships open to applicants outside of computer science/engineering etc. doing relevant work?

I really like time shifter but honestly the following has worked better for me:

Fast for ~16 hours prior to 7am in my new time-zone.

Take melatonin, usually ~10pm in my new timezone and again if I wake up and stop feeling sleepy before around 5am in my new timezone. (I have no idea if this second dosing is optimal but it seems to work).

I highly recommend getting a good neck pillow, earplugs, and eye mask if you travel often or on long trips (e.g. if you are Australian and go overseas almost anywhere).

Thanks to Chris Watkins for suggesting the fasting routine.

2
Alexander Saeri
Glad that fasting works for you! I have tried it a couple of times and have found myself too hungry or uncomfortable to sleep at the times I need to (eg, a nap in the middle of the flight). Great points on equipment; I think they are necessary and think that the bulk of a good neck pillow in carry on luggage is justified because I can't sleep without it. I also have some comically ugly and oversized sunglasses that fit over my regular glasses and block light from all sides.

The schedule looks like it's all dated for August, is that the right link?

2
leillustrations🔸
Fixed now, thanks for flagging!

I'd also potentially include the latest version of Carlsmiths chapter on Power-seeking AI.

I think Thorstad's "Against the singularity hypothesis" might complement the week 10 readings.

4
rileyharris
I'd also potentially include the latest version of Carlsmiths chapter on Power-seeking AI.

A quick clarification: I mean that "maximize expected utility" is what both CDT and EDT do, so saying "In other words, this would be the kind of decision theory that recommends decisions that maximize expected utility" is perhaps misleading

I quite like this post. I think though that your conclusion, to use CDT when probabilities aren't affected by your choice and use EDT when they are affected, is slightly strange. As you note, CDT gives the same recommendations EDT in cases where your decision affects the probabilities, so it sounds to me like you would actually follow CDT in all situations (and only trivially follow EDT in the special cases where EDT and CDT make the same recommendations).

I think there's something to pointing out that CDT in fact recommends one boxing wherever your action ... (read more)

1
rileyharris
A quick clarification: I mean that "maximize expected utility" is what both CDT and EDT do, so saying "In other words, this would be the kind of decision theory that recommends decisions that maximize expected utility" is perhaps misleading

David Thorstad (Reflective Altruism/GPI/Vanderbilt) Tyler John (Longview) Rory Stewart (GiveDirectly)

7
Jim Buhler
Also +1 David Thorstad, assuming we are interested in the best critiques of longtermism/X-risk reduction existing out there. I don't see anyone remotely as appropriate as him on the topic.
7
Arepo
+1 David Thorstad

+1 on Rory Stewart- as well as being the President of GD, he was the Secretary of State for International Development in the UK, has started and run his own charity (I believe with his wife) in the developing world, has mentioned EA previously, is known to be an enjoyable person to listen to (judging by the success of his podcast), and has just released a book- and therefore might be more likely than usual to engage with popular media.

8
NickLaing
Rory Stewart is always a good time, surprised he hasn't been interviewed already!

Thanks for posting, I have a few quick comments I want to make:

  1. I recently got into a top program in philosophy despite having clear association with EA (I didn't cite "EA sources" in my writing sample though, only published papers and OUP books). I agree that you should be careful, especially about relying on "EA Sources" which are not widely viewed as credible.

  2. Totally agree that prospects are very bad outside of top 10 and lean towards "even outside of top 5 seriously consider other options"

  3. On the other hand, if you really would be okay with fail

... (read more)

My understanding is that, at a high level, this effect is counterbalanced by the fact that a high rate of extinction risk means the expected value of the future is lower. In this example, we only reduce the risk this century to 10%, but next century it will be 20%, and the one after that it will be 20% and so on. So the risk is 10x higher than in the 2% to 1% scenario. And in general, higher risk lowers the expected value of the future. 

In this simple model, these two effects perfectly counterbalance each other for proportional reductions of existenti... (read more)

2
Jonas Hallgren 🔸
Alright, that makes sense; thank you!
3
titotal
Yes, essentially preventing extinction "pays off" more in the low risk situation because the effects ripple on for longer.  Mathematically, if the value of one century is v, the "standard" chance of extinction is r, and the rate of extinction just for this century is d, then the expected value of the remaining world will be  v(1−d)+v(1−d)(1−r)+v(1−d)(1−r)2+...  = v(1−d)/r  (using geometric sums).  In the world where background risk is 20%, but we reduce this century risk from 20% to 10%, the total value goes from 4*v to 4.5*v.  In the world where background risk is 2%, but we reduce this century risk from 20% to 10%, the total value goes from 49*v to 49.5*v. In both cases, our intervention has added 0.5v to the total value.

"There are three main branches of decision theory: descriptive decision theory (how real agents make decisions), prescriptive decision theory (how real agents should make decisions), and normative decision theory (how ideal agents should make outcomes)."

This doesn't seem right to me, I would say: an interesting way you can divide up decision theory is between descriptive decision theory (how people make decisions) and normative decision theory (how we should make decisions).

The last line of your description, "how ideal agents should make outcomes" seems es... (read more)

2
rileyharris
I actually think this is a pretty reasonable division now, removed the automatic upvote on my comment.

This is a fantastic initiative! I'm not personally vegan, but believe the "default" for catering should be vegan (or at least meat and egg free) with the option for participants to declare special diatery requirements. This would lower consumption of animal products as most people just go with the default option, and push the burden of responsibility to the people going out of their way to eat meat.

How should applicants think about grant proposals that are rejected. I especially find newer members of the community can be heavily discouraged by rejections, is there anything you would want to communicate to them?

7
Linch
I don't know how many points I can really cleanly communicate to such a heterogeneous group, and I'm really worried about anything I say in this context being misunderstood or reified in unhelpful ways. But here goes nothing: * First of all, I don't know man, should you really listen to my opinion? I'm just one guy, who happened to have some resources/power/attention vested in me; I worry that people (especially the younger EAs) vastly overestimate how much my judgment is worth, relative to their own opinions and local context. * Thank you for applying, and for wanting to do the right thing. I genuinely appreciate everybody who applies, whether for a small project or large, in the hopes that their work can make the world a better place. It's emotionally hard and risky, and I have a lot of appreciation for the very small number people who tried to take a step in making the world better. * These decisions are really hard, and we're likely to screw up. Morality is hard and longtermism by its very nature means worse feedback loops than normal. I'm sure you're familiar with how selection/rejections can often be extremely noisy in other domains (colleges, jobs, etc). There aren't many reasons to think we'll do better, and some key reasons to think we'd do worse. We tried our best to make the best funding decisions we could, given limited resources, limited grantmaker time, and limited attention and cognitive capabilities. It's very likely that we have and will continue to consistently fuck up.  * This probably means that if you continue to be excited about your project in the absence of LTFF funding, it makes sense to continue to pursue it either under your own time or while seeking other funding. * Funding is a constraint again, at least for now. So earning-to-give might make sense. The wonderful thing about earning-to-give is that money is fungible; anybody can contribute, and probabilistically our grantees and would-be grantees are likely to be people with amon

If a project is partially funded by e.g. open philanthropy, would you take that as a strong signal of the projects value (e.g. not worth funding at higher levels)?

5
Linch
Nah, at least in my own evaluation I don't think Open Phil evaluations take a large role in my evaluation qua evaluation. That said, LTFF has historically[1] been pretty constrained on grantmaker time so if we think OP evaluation can save us time, obviously that's good. A few exceptions I can think of: * I think OP is reasonably good at avoiding types-of-downside-risks-that-I-model-OP-as-caring-about (eg reputational harm), so I tend to spend less time vetting grants for that downside risk vector when OP has already funded them. * For grants into technical areas I think OP has experience in (eg biosecurity), if a project has already been funded by OP (or sometimes rejected) I might ask OP for a quick explanation of their evaluation. Often they know key object-level facts that I don't. * In the past, OP has given grants to us. I think OP didn't want to both fund orgs and to fund us to then fund those orgs, so we reduced evaluation of orgs (not individuals) that OP has already funded. I think switching over from a "OP gives grants to LTFF" model to a "OP matches external donations to us" model hopefully means this is no longer an issue. Another factor going forwards is that we'll trying to increase epistemic independence and decrease our reliance on OP even further, so I expect to try to actively reduce how much OP judgments influence my thinking. 1. ^ And probably currently as well, though at this very moment funding is a larger concern/constraint. We did make some guest fund manager hires recently so hopefully we're less time-bottlenecked now. But I won't be too surprised if grantmaker time becomes a constraint again after this current round of fundraising is over.

My entry is called Project Apep, it's set in a world where alignment is difficult, but a series of high profile incidents lead to extremely secure and cautious development of AI. It tugs at the tensions between how AI can make the future wonderful or terrible.

I'm working on a related distillation project, I'd love to have a chat so we can coordinate our efforts! (riley@wor.land)

I agree that regulation is enormously important, but I'm not sure about the following claim:

"That means that aligning an AGI, while creating lots of value, would not reduce existential risk"

It seems, naively, that an aligned AGI could help us detect and prevent other power seeking AGIs. It doesn't completely eliminate the risk, but I feel even a single aligned AGI makes the world a lot safer against misaligned AGI.

1
Otto
Thanks for the comment. I think the ways an aligned AGI could make the world safer against unaligned AGIs can be divided in two categories: preventing unaligned AGIs from coming into existence or stopping already existing unaligned AGIs from causing extinction. The second is the offense/defense balance. The first is what you point at. If an AGI would prevent people from creating AI, this would likely be against their will. A state would be the only actor who could do so legally, assuming there is regulation in place, and also most practically. Therefore, I think your option falls under what I described in my post as "Types of AI (hardware) regulation may be possible where the state actors implementing the regulation are aided by aligned AIs". I think this is indeed a realistic option and it may reduce existential risk somewhat. Getting the regulation in place at all, however, seems more important at this point than developing what I see as a pretty far-fetched and - at the moment - intractable way to implement it more effectively.
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