All of Alex319's Comments + Replies

Answer by Alex319Apr 01, 202420
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  1. You mentioned that one harm of insecticide-treated bed nets is that if people use them as fishing nets, that could cause harm to fish stocks. You say that GiveWell didn't take that into account in its cost-effectiveness calculations. But according to e.g. https://blog.givewell.org/2015/02/05/putting-the-problem-of-bed-nets-used-for-fishing-in-perspective/, they did take that into account, they just concluded that the harm was very small in comparison to the benefits. Can you clarify what you meant when you say GiveWell didn't take that into account?
  2. If you'
... (read more)

About this footnote:

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Carol Adams even informs us that:

Sebo and Singer flourish as academics in a white supremacist patriarchal society because others, including people of color and those who identify as women, are pushed down. (p. 135, emphasis added.)

Maybe treading on the oppressed is a crucial part of Singer’s daily writing routine, without which he would never have written a word? If there’s some other reason to believe this wild causal claim, we’re never told what it is.

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Here's a potential more cha... (read more)

Of course that depends on whether everyone else is also evacuating. For instance do we expect that if a tactical nuke is used in Ukraine a significant amount of the US population will be trying to evacuate? As has been mentioned before there was not a significant percentage of the US population trying to evacuate even during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and that was probably a much higher risk and more salient situation than we face now.

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isabel
2y
was the Cuban Missile crisis higher risk than actual nukes going off? actual nukes seem to me to be more salient. 

One thing that would be really useful in terms of personal planning, and maybe would be a good idea to have a top level post on, is something like:

What is P(I survive | I am in location X when a nuclear war breaks out)

for different values of X such as:

(A) a big NATO city like NYC

(B) a small town in the USA away from any nuclear targets

(C) somewhere outside the US/NATO but still in the northern hemisphere, like Mexico. (I chose Mexico because that's probably the easiest non-NATO country for Americans to get to)

(D) somewhere like Argentina or Australia, the ... (read more)

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Lizka
2y
Quick note: this post notes out some serious disagreements / issues with the paper linked in (D)
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Guy Raveh
2y
A bunch of us here at the Prague Fall Season would like to know this for F) a medium NATO capital outside the US/UK.
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Denkenberger
2y
Those are good questions on survival in different locations, and I haven't seen estimates of those (lots of uncertainty in response). I think the EMP from a single detonation is not quite that bad, but I would expect many EMPs in a full-scale exchange. With two days warning, most flights will already be full, and the flight capacity over a few days is much smaller than the population, so I would not count on that. But driving is more feasible if you own a car (ride share would be more problematic).

This was really helpful. I'm living in New York City and am also making the decision about when/whether to evacuate, so it was useful to see the thoughts of expert forecasters. I wouldn't consider myself an expert forecaster and don't really think I have much knowledge of nuclear issues, so here's a couple other thoughts and questions:

- I'm a little surprised that P(London being attacked | nuclear conflict) seemed so low since I would have expected that that would be one of the highest priority targets. What informed that and would you expect somewhere lik... (read more)

UwU
2y12
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See my comments here and here for a bit of analysis on targeting/risks of various locations.

Btw I want to add that it may be even more prudent to evacuate population centers preemptively than some think, as some have suggested countervalue targets are unlikely to be hit at the very start of a nuclear war/in a first strike. That's not entirely true since there are many ways cities would be hit with no warning. If Russia or China launches on warning in response to a false alarm, they would be interpreting that act as a (retaliatory) second strike and thus ma... (read more)

For what it’s worth, while Facebook’s Forecast was met with some amount of skepticism, I wouldn’t say it was “dismissed” out of hand.

 

To clarify, when I made the comment about it being "dismissed", I wasn't thinking so much about media coverage as I was about individual Facebook users seeing prediction app suggestions in their feed  I was thinking that there are already a lot of unscientific and clickbait-y quizzes and games that get posted to Facebook, and was concerned that users might lump this in with those if it is presented in a similar way... (read more)

I'm not an expert on social media or journalism, but just some fairly low-confidence thoughts - it seems like this is areally interesting idea, but it seems very odd to think of it as a Facebook feature (or other social media platform):

  • Facebook and social media in general don't really have an intellectual "brand". It seems likely that if you did this as a Facebook feature, it would be more likely to get dismissed as "just another silly Facebook game." Or if most of the people using it weren't putting much effort into it, the predictionslikely  wouldn'
... (read more)
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David_Althaus
3y
Thanks for your detailed comment. Yeah, maybe all of this is a bit fantastical. :)  That’s certainly possible. For what it’s worth, while Facebook’s Forecast was met with some amount of skepticism, I wouldn’t say it was “dismissed” out of hand. The forecasting accuracy of Forecast’s users was also fairly good: “Forecast's midpoint brier score [...] across all closed Forecasts over the past few months is 0.204, compared to Good Judgement's published result of 0.227 for prediction markets.” However, it’s true that a greater integration with Facebook would probably make the feature more controversial and also result in a lower forecasting accuracy. Btw, Facebook is just one example—I write this because you seem to focus exclusively on Facebook in your comment. In some ways, Twitter might be more appropriate for such features. That would be the less complicated option. It might be perceived as being unfair—not sure if this will be a big problem though. I’m working under the assumption that people who make more correct forecasts in one domain will also tend to have a more accurate model of the world in other domains—on average, of course, there will be (many) exceptions. I’m not saying this is ideal; it’s just an improvement over the status quo where forecasting accuracy practically doesn’t matter all in determining how many people read your content. That would be the other, more complicated alternative. Perhaps this is feasible when using more coarse-grained domains like politics, medicine, technology, entertainment, et cetera, maybe in combination with machine learning.  Well, sure. But across all users there will likely be a positive correlation between past and future accuracy. I think it would be good for the world if people who made more correct forecasts about COVID in the past would receive more “views” than those who made more incorrect forecasts about COVID—even though it’s practically guaranteed that some people in the latter group will improve a lot (

You mention that:

Neither we nor they had any way of forecasting or quantifying the possible impact of [Extinction Rebellion]

and go on to talk about this is an example of the type of intervention that EA is likely to miss due to lack of quantifiability.

One think that would help us understand your point is to answer the following question:

If it's really not possible to make any kind of forecast about the impact of grassroots activism (or whatever intervention you would prefer), then on what basis do you support your claim that supporting grassroots act... (read more)

A more charitable interpretation of the author's point might be something like the following:

(1) Since EAs look at quantitative factors like the expected number of lives saved by an intervention, they need to be able to quantify their uncertainty.

(2) Interventions that target large, interconnected systems are harder to quantify the results of than interventions that target individuals. For instance, consider health-improving interventions. The intervention "give medication X to people who have condition Y" is easy to test with an RCT. Howeve... (read more)

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Matt_Lerner
4y
This is certainly a charitable reading of the article, and you are doing the right thing by trying to read it as generously as possible. I think they are indeed making this point: This criticism is more than fair. I have to agree with it and simultaneously point out that of course this is a problem that many are aware of and are actively working to change. I don't think that they're explicitly arguing for the worldview I was outlining above. This is my own perception of the motivating worldview, and I find support in the authors' explicit rejection of science and objectivity.

As for the question of "what do the authors consider to be root causes," here's my reading of the article. Consider the case of factory farming. Probably all of us agree that the following are all necessary causes:

(1) There's lots of demand for meat.

(2) Factory farming is currently the technology that can produce meat most efficiently and cost-effectively.

(3) Producers of meat just care about production efficiency and cost-effectiveness, not animal suffering.

I suspect you and other EAs focus on item (2) when you are talking about "... (read more)

Thanks, this comment makes a lot of sense, and it makes it much easier for me to conceptualize why I disagree with the conclusion.

Do you think that the article reflects a viewpoint that it's not possible to make decisions under uncertainty?

I think so, because the article includes some statements like,

"How could anyone forecast the recruitment of thousands of committed new climate activists around the world, the declarations of climate emergency and the boost for NonViolentDirectAction strategies across the climate movement?"

and

"[C]omplex systems change... (read more)