All of Niklas Lehmann's Comments + Replies

I was surprised to see the comments on this post, which mostly provide arguments in favor of pursuing technological progress, even if this might lead to a higher risk of catastrophes. 

I would like to chip in the following: 

Preferences regarding the human condition are largely irrelevant for technological progress in the areas that you mention. Technological progress is driven by a large number of individuals that seek prestige and money.  There is simply consumer demand for AI and technologies which may alter the human condition. Thus, techn... (read more)

3
Hayven Frienby
4mo
Thanks for your response! I did mean to limit my post by saying that I wasn't intending to discuss the practical feasibility of permanently stopping AI progress in the actual world, only the moral desirability of doing so. With that said, I don't think postmodern Western capitalism is the final word on what is possible in either the economic or moral realms. More imagination is needed, I think.  Thanks for the further reading suggestion -- adding it to my list. 
3
Kyle J. Lucchese
4mo
Glad to hear it!    Just a quick note - EAGxBerlin is confirmed for September 13 - 15. Though applications are not yet open, you can save the date. 

Thanks Ren for this in-depth article. This is pure gold! Btw: I happened to read something related a couple of days ago: why-you-should-publish-your-research-in-academic-fashion. Maybe you should ask the author to link to your post?

Also: You have written "paper" instead of "journal" on the first line of your subsection Open access mega journals.

 

5
Ren Ryba
5mo
Thank you, fixed. I did search for related articles on the EA Forum before posting mine, but I missed that one. The irony!! I'll add a link to that post in this article.

Thanks so much for the review! I would like to add that there is some evidence that simple acupressure mats help alleviate low back pain.

Thank you for writing this blogpost! 

I wondered whether you also specifically looked at population decline in developed countries? I would have thought that the most interesting question would be along the lines: Could demographic collapse in developed countries lead to decreased civilizational resilience? As trammell pointed out: Developed countries seem to be prone to population decline in the next century, particularly if the social trend to have fewer babies continues. I think it is also a bit misleading to talk about changes in total world population when the composition of this population is changing across time too. 

Thank you for writing up a well-researched article. Although I am skeptical that this would meet the effectiveness threshold for top funds, this might be of interest to local funds. I can imagine that local governments are willing to spend significant amounts on such a problem. Yet only if they are confident in alleviating the problem. However, the problem gets increasing attention.  Stray dogs seem to be an issue in other countries such as Romania as well.

I find your conclusion " [...] an economic cost of 3 Billion USD every year. The economic cost o... (read more)

I agree strongly! It would be interesting to research how economists have looked upon the creation of the internet. I guess that there is in fact little research on how the internet would change the world pre-1990. 

Thank you for publishing this post. In which way is this different from what Optimism tries to achieve? Also, what if the public good is difficult to monitor? It is hard to observe reductions in existential risk. How will the protocol pay out if there is large uncertainty regarding the effects of an intervention, even afterwards?

4
joe7399
2y
It is not particularly different from what Optimism is trying to achieve, but importantly it is actually on-chain whereas Optimism's initial test round was done informally with a google doc to notarize votes and project nominations and disbursement was manual. As things scale this isn't really a great way to fund future rounds especially if more money is involved.  That's a good point, observing risk reduction is hard and it was a can of worms I didn't really open in the article. I am relying on sensible wisdom of the crowd type decisions to be implemented by groups of experienced assessors and forecasters. We'd like to come up with some broad traffic light system metrics to help guide voters, but ultimately this will require more research and development. What do you mean with difficult to monitor? Broad goods like "risk reduction research" may be difficult to monitor but individual contributions or projects which are nominated can still be assessed even if the overarching progress is hard to measure. The payout is tied to the design decisions made at the round instantiation and the votes. The responsibility lies with the badge holders to assess those uncertainties and to potentially halt funding streams. See the discussion with ofer.

Exactly. Such problems are similar in nature. But it is important to point out that in such cases bilateral or multilateral agreements can be found relatively quickly (and have been in the past - see e.g. Rhine pollution treaty), whereas geoengineering needs a global treaty which is much harder to craft.

Hey John, thank you for the article! I feel that there is substantial confusion regarding whether to delay or even accelerate research into SRM and similar stuff. 

The argument against researching geoengineering methods seems to be that having SRM available in the short-term would do more harm than good.  However, this makes the fundamental assumption that research enables geoengineering in the first place. In my view, the "how to" deploy geoengineering is already public. Deployment (unilateral or not) could happen now.

If one assumes the „informat... (read more)

4[anonymous]2y
Hello! thanks for this As I argue in the piece, I don't think deployment could happen now, at least for stratospheric aerosol injection. I don't think it will happen until there is significant within-country demand for SAI at least among all major powers. We are a long long way away from that. The governance challenges for things like marine cloud brightening are lower so I agree that could plausibly be used much sooner.   The information/attention hazards depends not only on the idea of solar geoengineering but how much it is discussed. This is widely accepted in eg biorisk where many researchers will not mention published papers on gain of function research. It is clear that further scientific discussion and attention would increase the info/attention hazard.  My main concern with SAI research is that it is a waste of money. The case is less clear for more regional solar geo

Wouldn´t this problem be solvable by creating a database/network of existing consultants, freelancers etc. that have a background in effective altruism? Then, whenever needed, you could assemble a team from this network and just pay their regular employers.

Also, this might in some cases be accepted as (price reduced) pro-bono work. And you would get free advertisement for EA Orgs on top.   

My initial hunch is that the amount of work that is EA-specific is not sufficiently big enough to run a EA-dedicated consultancy, especially if you consider th... (read more)

9
Surbhi B
3y
Thanks for the great discussion on this thread! I noticed that there hasn't been much mention of development consulting firms that fall somewhere between pure management and EA. IDInsight in particular is pretty EA-aligned. Others like Bridgespan and Dalberg also work with social sector clients. There is still a lot of room for development consulting being more "EA-first" and wonder if there an opportunity to orient existing firms to EA principles. 

just adding to this, there is the ea consulting network whose members are all, well, ea-aligned consultants, though i don’t know exactly what competencies most people have.

=> https://www.eac-network.com/

There is a german author (Andreas Eschbach) who incorporates true science into his (imo great) fiction novels to spread awareness especially of potentially dangerous technologies. For example, in his book "Der Herr aller Dinge/ Lord of all things" he outlines the potential dangers of atomic scale manufacturing. The book is also available in English.

Hey Michael, I am sad to find out that the web app seems to be down. Have you planned to rebuild it ?

2
MichaelDickens
3y
My apologies, I'm not very good at monitoring it, so occasionally it breaks and I don't notice. It should be working now.

I thought that was exactly what Metaculus has been established for. In which way is this different ?

8
Linch
4y
I think this is a good point. I think people probably underrate the costs of duplicate/redundant work. That said: 1) You can't see detailed predictions of other individual people on Metaculus, only the aggregated prediction by one of Metaculus's favored weightings. 2) The commenting system on Metaculus is more barebones than the EA Forum or LessWrong (eg you can't attach pictures, there's no downvote functionality). 3) The userbases are different.

I often find it very depressing to deeply think about suffering focused ethics. You have written yourself that it might be natural not to give too much thought to extreme suffering because too much of it may cause damage to your psyche. Have you found a way to reframe your thinking about suffering focused topics so that they do not seem so dark compared to a moral view that is highly motivated by positive feelings or a distant utopia ?

4
Magnus Vinding
4y
Thanks for your question, Niklas. It's an important one. The following link contains some resources for sustainable activism that I've found useful: https://magnusvinding.com/2017/12/30/resources-for-sustainable-activism/ But specifically, it may be useful to cultivate compassion — the desire for other beings to be free from suffering — more than (affective) empathy, i.e. actually feeling the feelings of those who suffer. Here is an informative conversation about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ1SuKOchps As I write in section 9.5 (see the book for references):