Thank you for sharing this so openly, and for your work on this project over the years! As a fellow community builder, I really recognise how hard this work can be, especially when it comes to funding and impact uncertainty.
I can confirm that what you describe matches the reality for many community builders. I’ve been running Hive on a paid basis for almost three years, and funding has consistently been one of our biggest challenges. Tracking and evidencing impact is also genuinely difficult in community building, even when the work feels clearly valuable ...
Solid advice, concisely put!
I think you may have chosen this title for emphasis, but I would say that applying for jobs can still work and I wouldn't recommend people to just stop completely, but I agree it's longer timelines and much lower chances. If I were looking for a job now, I think I would spend 10% applying for jobs and all the rest of the time increasing my surface area for serendipity and doing directly what you're talking about.
I agree, I was speaking to @Jordan Pieters 🔸 about this and I think it's often unclear whether an EAG or an EAGx is valuable for animal advocates as you can't see the talks or attendees (I appreciate attendees provide most value at such networking events and it's hard to see who is going before people have committed to going). Since there are now many more animal welfare-only conferences, I think it's easier for people to just go to those rather than attend EAGs if they are not sure that it will be relevant for them. To be clear, I think most EAGs w...
Nice post, thanks for writing it Michelle. Speaking to multiple referees is a good tip.
I especially appreciate the advice to speak to learn about the org you will be joining and the people you will be working with. Very underrated advice. Usually people are so happy to accept the offer, while they should really try to jump on calls with some future collaborators and speak to former employees (which as you said is doubly effective as these people usually have nothing to hold back).
I'd say do mention this when applying for early stage orgs (e.g. AIM or AIM incubated charities) and they really value this attitude. For orgs which don't have a budget or have a very small budget, it would make a huge difference to hire someone who is good and doesn't cost too much. Also it may mean that in some cases you will be hired over some people simply because you are the best in that range of pay (assuming you are).
I'd say that for bigger, more established orgs it shouldn't make a difference, as 30-50k probably don't matter to them as much as hiri...
I agree with Rebecca, and I also really appreciated the thoughtful points from Julia Wise and DenkerBerger.
I wanted to add a few personal reflections, replying to your post and your comment.
In practice, I don’t think EA funders are likely to provide ongoing grants to people whose productivity has significantly declined. Funding is usually tied to impact, not years of service. That’s why I think it’s our personal responsibility to prepare for retirement, rather than expecting the movement to support us later in life.
I used to think similarly to you — ...
Thanks for posting about this Julia. This was very nice to read when I got ill recently before a conference. It felt like I was the only one who was struggling and missing out on my normal attendance, and then when I shared I wasn't at 100%, people also shared how they had all kinds of health issues, had to leave the conference early, or have been struggling for a while and how it affected their work and life. I think it's easy to feel like you're the only one and thus feel lonely in your struggles, while we are all human and the vast majority of us will g...
Hey Jacob, thanks a lot for reading and your comment!
I relate to your answers, especially about the person signalling that it's ok to come to them with certain questions or ask for help. My own favourite is "Have a low bar for reaching out" which has worked in some cases.
And also funny that people don't give that great of advice! I have found that it's worth asking for advice sometimes just to see if there is anything you don't know, and if you keep hearing the same advice from experts it means you may have heard most of what you need to know.
C...
Definitely! I also thought that the drawback of these houses is that they are not very accessible to people with families, so it may put some experienced professionals off.
Another lighter version of this idea is for these people to find a job that pays their bills with working 20h a week and dedicate 20h for exploration (or another allocation, e.g. 10h a week).
As a thought experiment I really like this idea. Practically the way it's currently described I'm unsure how this could compete with existing projects, especially in cause areas like animal welfare where funding is super limited.
I fall into the category of people you described (probably like the majority of people?): I can't just drop everything and not work for 5 years to focus on a project that funders wouldn't fund. In fact, I actually decided not to work on my project (Hive) back in 2022 when it was only a side project because I didn't get fundin...
Thanks for writing and cross posting it Max, I think feedback giving in an underrated skill in the movement which we all should practice more. In my previous jobs I found that I almost never heard from my manager what they thought about my work overall apart from the annual performance review time, and I can imagine that reading the general assessment on a weekly basis can make you feel more confident especially if you made a mistake that week. I think many managers think that the reports can "read their minds" but making "the implicit explicit" and separa...
I've been using DoneThat for a few months and it was amazing to see an accurate picture of how many hours I work and what I did, and how often I switch between tasks. All that without having to track time! I realised I work too many hours so it helped me to work more sustainably. Also really nice to see how long each task took, sometimes I think "oh I think that was an two-hour task" and then I look at DoneThat and it shows as a 3 or 4 hour task because of other smaller sessions, which is useful to know.
I'd be doing less good with my life if I hadn't heard of effective altruism
I'm quite sure I'd be doing less good. Getting involved in EA helped me assess my career for impact and ultimately get on a path to explore my options and get training and experience to start and lead a charity. I also think that Hive wouldn't have existed as soon as it ended up being started by me (2022) or existed in this form (impact-focused, effective community). I spoke to quite a few people when I came up with the idea and very few people thought it should be done, it's unlike...
Hey Drew, thanks a lot for writing this post. I found it quite inspiring for a few reasons:
As a hiring manager myself, I can tell you that we want to hire the best person for the job (someone who can solve our problem most effectively), and their current situation, as well as their work history, may not play as big a role. I focus a lot on current skills and abilities, and my experience with this person during volunteering/interactions/work trials.
I don't think that someone looking for an impactful job for a long time would make a difference to me, as I see how competitive things can get. I guess it may be interesting to me to see what the perso...
Thanks for reading, Siobhan! Appreciate your kind words.
RE Haha, I think many people may feel the same as you. I remember when I started job hunting after 3 years at Veganuary and felt that with my experience and qualification any org will want to hire me (I was very unaware of how competitive the job market was, even though ironically I got that Veganuary job out of over 300 people!), and found it shocking to keep getting rejected after going through to the last stage in a few roles, and to only get one offer after 6 months of hard core job hunting....
Hi Brad, thanks a lot for reading and your comment. This is such a thoughtful reflection, and I’m really glad you brought it up.
I love the idea of making constraints more permeable within the community. Your examples—like micro-grants (@Cameron King had this idea!), shared ops talent, and treating introductions as infrastructure—really sharpen it. This is exactly why I appreciate meta-orgs like CEA and Magnify Mentoring: they don’t just help with skill-building, they help you see which obstacles can be solved with community support. Humbly bringing u...
Thanks for writing this! I agree to a large extent. I also find panels hard to follow and prefer focused talks from experts (and prefer 1:1s to all of them). Brainstorming sessions-wise, I agree with you that they work only if the group participants are selected for a particular purpose. Most brainstorming sessions with "random" participants (even though they were interested in the same topic as me) I attended never went anywhere. However, there is some value in attending these sessions to feel engaged in the community. For example, I try to make it to Rev...
Rika, I loved this post! Thanks so much for writing this, I think you articulated AQ very well. You and I talked a lot about this, and I feel like we share common AQ factors, so I can relate to your story. Your point about focusing on what's possible, not what should be possible, is very valid and helpful.
I wrote this post a few years ago, which touches on similar points. I'm a big believer that, in general, we need to do more to support advocates in neglected regions and from unprivileged backgrounds. That's why I am focusing on building an online global ...
The percentage of EAs earning to give is too low
I chose this because I believe that at this point in EA, especially in animal welfare, a relatively small amount of money (e.g. 30k) can go pretty far in terms of opportunity cost and impact per dollar. E.g. this could be a solid seed fund for a new charity, or cost for a full-time employee for an effective charity in the global south.
My uncertainty is about how many people need to earn to give and how much they'd need to donate, and if they should test their fit in effective non-profits first.
I a...
Good question! It's important to avoid putting yourself in a place where you are desperate for funding, because then you can search for the right funder slowly and focus on impact instead. For example, I advised in this talk to avoid quitting your job or main source of income until you have more certainty about funding. This allows you time to get to know the funders informally without having to make asks immediately. Many people are surprised to learn that funding for such projects can take a year or longer to secure. I think it's quite a normal timeline,...
Thanks a lot Nayanika! Appreciate you reading. The funder advice can be counterintuitive because of course we want to get funding and it's tempting to just say yes to any funder requests (partly due to power dynamics), but it's so easy to lose your focus if you chase funders' priorities. I think it's important to find funders who are aligned and trust you to deliver the impact!
Thanks so much for writing it, Toby, and for your work! I have always been a fan of the EA Forum and greatly appreciate the work of all the team, but I must admit that since you started your role, writing on the Forum has become a bit less intimidating for me. I appreciate how approachable you are and how you are always up for reviewing my drafts. It makes it a lot more likely for me to post them rather than just keeping them in drafts. Hosting events like career weeks can be a great way to include people and feel quite special. As a fellow community build...
Thanks for sharing this write-up. I really appreciated the transparency, especially your explanations for why certain grants were accepted or rejected. That level of detail is uncommon and will be helpful for future applicants as they decide whether and how to apply.
It was also interesting to read about the grants you did approve and the reasoning behind them. I found the point about some groups not realising they were receiving funding elsewhere particularly insightful. I recently spoke with a funder about how nonprofits often have less certainty about fu...
Thanks a lot for reading and sharing your story Rowan! Love this story through volunteering, which led to a paid role, which in turn led to another paid role!
I think that it's a really valuable takeaway, that we don't need a whole lot of opportunities, we just need one high quality opportunity, and then build from that.
I also appreciate the point familiarity/trust vs experience/education. I think that people often believe that they have to be better than all the candidates, and there is some truth to it, but often it's about standing out, building trust and credibility over the long run.
Thanks for reading and for your comment Jamie! Exactly, in an ideal world, we’d run perfect, open hiring rounds for everything. But given how much hiring still happens informally, I think it’s worth naming this strategy publicly so more people can take advantage of it should they chose to. Even if it doesn’t lead directly to a job, it might be what gets someone noticed in a future hiring round. And as you said, it’s a win-win: impactful projects get done, and people build visibility along the way. Something I maybe didn't highlight clearly enough but is worth adding is doing side things and being more visible about it can also be very exciting and enjoyable. So a win-win-win :)
Thanks a lot Sarah! Thanks for mentioning the book and your story! Linking a summary for folks' convenience. I recently read the summary of the book and really wished I read it in my early twenties. It's so useful and full of tips which are applicable to EA.
On the side events you mentioned, such a great example! They are surprisingly simple to organise. Most conferences will either be happy for you to host their existing meetup, or welcome meetup submissions before the conference to host at the venue, or a satellite event, and you get often get free ...
Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughtful comment Saul!
You're totally right — I didn’t coin the phrase surface area for serendipity, and I appreciate the nudge to be clearer about that. What I meant by “introduce” was more “bring into this post / share how I use it,” especially because some people here may not be familiar with it — but I can see how that could read as staking some originality claim I didn’t intend.
I’ve now updated the wording to “describe a concept I use,” as you suggested — thank you again!
Thanks so much for reading and for sharing your story Gergo! I completely agree — volunteering is often underrated in EA, and your experience really shows why it can be so powerful. I wrote a post about it ages ago (my first EA Forum post!) that I didn't link here.
That’s such a great example of how volunteering can create unexpected opportunities and connections. I love that you were able to get on a call with the director of StrongMinds so early on — it really highlights how being proactive, even in small ways, can lead to meaningful experiences.
Hey Angelina, thank you so much for the kind words and for sharing your story — it’s super inspiring! I love your tip about volunteering at EA events; I try to share those kinds of opportunities regularly in our community too.
I actually wrote a bit about this in an earlier post on volunteering — I think one of the reasons it’s such a powerful way to open doors is because it’s accessible, memorable (like in your case!), and a great way to show your character and skills in action.
It reminded me of when I volunteered at a TEDx event back in 2017 in Poland — i...
Thanks a lot for writing this Haven and for the kind Hive shout out!
I see where you are coming from. When I started at Veganuary in my early twenties, it was my first online only job and it felt pretty surreal. Meeting with my colleagues once a month felt amazing, and we even did a few actions in person in London which was great. Apart from my personal experience, I also get that in-person movement building is valuable overall.
Having said that, as a non-profit founder, all I want is realiable hard-working people who are agentic, coachable and get thi...
I really liked this post, Constance! Thank you for writing it. You are definitely a super connector, and it is great to see your wisdom and experience written out like this.
I completely agree that we should default to double opt-in. I’ve been introduced to people without warning a few times, and it can be awkward when I don’t have time to connect or if I feel that I won't be as helpful in this case. It also makes me trust the introducer a little less. I also think that it spares the other person we are being introduced to some time.
A mini-trial idea ...
How much advance notice would be appropriate in an ordinary case?
Since many orgs are small and have other things they may be working on, conferences to go to etc. A response to a criticism is substantial work, especially for a small team. I would suggest 3 weeks. Some people can be on holiday for two weeks so three weeks covers that case too. I would also say that more effort needs to be made to have a receipt confirmation as if the email lands in spam it’s probably not going to be enough notice if it’s discovered two weeks later.
Vote power should scale with karma
I think community members with more experience of engagement can help upvote posts which are in line with the topics that the community might value more. This helps all community members identify valuable posts, as there is a lot to read. However I think that at some point your vote weight should stop growing and be capped at a certain number, but I’m unsure how this works currently.
Kudos to you team and many thanks for sharing! I’m a big fan of organisations focusing and doing less but better. In my opinion too many people and orgs in our movement take on too much and don’t do anything as well as a result, and it’s great to see such a big, well-respected org setting an example. It’s never easy to make such decisions, especially if time and money has been invested. But it’s important that we constantly reevaluate the effectiveness and retire/hand off projects like you did in this case, very aligned with EA values :)
I really like this post! Thank you for writing it. I think people will benefit from more direction of what is best to do a the conference. Personally I have benefitted from reading about how to give feedback gentler and in a non-pushy way, as I found that I increasingly give more feedback at conferences as I get more experience.
I also appreciated that you mentioned not being too tired as something that can be useful to other attendees. I have noticed that people often underestimate just how tired they can get as back to back 1:1s aren't people's normal ope...
Many thanks Lorenzo! Appreciate the read and agreed that it can be useful to separate the movement role from the job market, especially considering how competitive the roles can be!