All of Jona's Comments + Replies

1.  Thanks for creating this post! 
2. I think it could be worth clarifying how you operationalize EA epistemics. In this comment, I mostly focus on epistemics at EA-related organizations and focus on "improving decision-making at organizations" as a concrete outcome of good epistemics. 
3. I think I can potentially provide value by adding anecdotal data points from my work on improving epistemics of EA related organizations. For context, I work at cFactual, supporting high-impact organizations and individuals during pivotal times. So far we have done

Thanks, Ollie! I thought this was helpful.

Thanks for creating this post! +1 to the general notion incl. the uncertainties around if it is always the most impactful use of time. On a similar note, after working with 10+ EA organizations on theories of change, strategies and impact measurement, I was surprised that there is even more room for more prioritization of highest leverage activities across the organization (e.g., based on results of decision-relevant impact analysis). For example, at cFactual, I don't think we have nailed how we allocate our time. We should probably deprioritize even more activities, double down even more aggressively on the most impactful ones and spend more time exploring new impact growth areas which could outperform existing ones. 

FWIW, I also think one key consideration is the likelihood of organizations providing updates and making sure the data means the same thing across organizations (see caveats in the report for more)

Registered. It also seems valuable to talk to impact-driven people who seriously considered quitting but then decided to finish their PhD as (a) it is not obvious to me that quitting is always the right choice and (b) it might be useful to know common reasons why people decided to continue working on their PhD. 

Thanks for creating this post! Sharing some thoughts on the topic based on my experience creating and redteaming theories of change (ToCs) with various EA orgs (partly echoing your observations and partly adding new points; Two concrete project examples can be found here and here).

1. Neglectedness of ToC work (basically echoing your claim). Due to the non-pressing nature and required senior input, ToC/strategy work seems to get deprioritized very often, e.g., I have been deprioritizing updating our ToC for three months due to more pressing work. I think the o

Hmm. Obviously, career advice depends a lot on the individual and the specific context, all things equal, I tentatively agree that there is some value in having seen a large "functioning" org. I think many of these orgs have also dysfunctional aspects (e.g., I think most orgs are struggling with sexual harassment and concentration of formal and informal power) and that working at normal orgs has quite high opportunity costs. I also think that many of my former employers were net negative for some silly which I think are highly relevant, e.g., high-quality decision making 

Thanks for clarifying! I think Training for Good looked into "scalable management trainings", but had a hard time identifying a common theme, which they could work on (This is my understanding based on a few  informal chats. This might be outdated and I am sure they have a more nuanced take). Based on my experience, different managers seem to have quite different struggles which change over time and good coaching and peer support seemed to be the most time-effective interventions for the managers (This is based on me chatting occasionally to people and not based on proper research or deep thinking about the topic) 

What do you specifically mean by "maturing in management, generally"? I noticed that people  tend to have very different things in mind when they are talking about "Improving management in EA" so could be worth clarifying

Some shameless self-promotion as this might be relevant to some readers: I work at cFactual, a new EA strategy consultancy, where one of our three initial  services is to optimize ToC's and KPI's together with organizations. Illustrative project experience includes the evaluation of the ToC and design of a KPI for GovAI’s fellowship program, building a quantitative impact and cost-effectiveness model for a global health NGO,  internally benchmarking the impact potential of two competing programs of an EA meta organization with each other, doing c... (read more)

Thanks for highlighting this offer again and sharing your feelings, Catherine! 

I like how you highlight that the forum is just one element of EA. Personally, I also distinguish quite strongly between EA  as a question and set of evolving ideas and the EA community (which is obviously a part of EA). 

Historically, I found it super valuable to talk with you through various sensitive community-building considerations and benefited a lot from your experience managing countless tricky situations I wasn't even aware of. Thanks for doing that important and hard behind-the-scenes work! 

Thanks for sharing, Catherine! I apply many of your tips and agree that they are super useful. Additional questions I ask myself quite often:

1. What is the goal I want to achieve? This is the question which helps me to structure my thinking and approach the most 
2. Am I asking the right question? Next to regularly not thinking through all the options I have, I also realize often that I am not asking the question I really care about in the first place
   1. Can I make a prediction about my decision? This helps me a lot to keep track of my decisions e.g., at cFactua

Quick update: we launched an EA-aligned strategy consultancy, partly motivated by this post and the feedback we received from our pilot projects: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/a65aZvDAcPTkkjWHT/introducing-cfactual-a-new-ea-aligned-consultancy-1

Thanks! Yes, feel free to DM me, if relevant.

Thanks for the question, Merlin. Please note that we have a small sample size and are still refining our models of what skillsets are most relevant for more EA-aligned consulting. 

Three things that have been useful: 1) Structuring problems, projects and meetings well, 2) Being able to switch quickly between different levels of abstraction quickly and constantly: Thinking carefully about a key assumption in an excel model in one moment and thinking about how the results change the big picture for a CEO in the next moment 3) More vaguely: Just having se... (read more)

Thanks for sharing and your great work during the last year. Having talked to you several times, I was and am impressed with your systematic approach to finding product-market fit/high expected impact opportunities, your ability to build MVPs to test ideas quickly, and your courage to discontinue programs that do not meet your bar.  

I think the latter is hard especially after investing weeks of work into programs and it is easy to trick oneself into motivated reasoning, about why it might be worth continuing the program. I admire you for having the courage to make tough judgment calls. Probably most of us should stop mediocre activities (earlier)

+1

Interesting read! Thanks for sharing! I imagine some points might even apply to 

1. university groups e.g., targeting specific people who could fill talent gaps or doing A/B testing (even though I am very uncertain about this)
2. myself (and potentially other EAs) e.g., I should probably prioritize looking for open jobs and forwarding it to relevant people even higher. Personally, I keep a list of the top ~10 most promising people I know and who could be open for new positions and try to keep them in my mind, if I stumble across opportunities. This post is a

Congrats on the excellent progress! Very excited to see where your journey will lead and what learnings you can share 

Maybe a consideration for you (uncertain how relevant this is for your target group though): for the Effective Altruism and Consulting Network LinkedIn and the group work quite well to invite people to events with only 2 clicks. 

I only have anecdotal/weak evidence, but I know that some members of the Effective Altruism and Consulting Network felt encouraged to apply for roles at Open Phil after learning that they already hired several consultants

Thanks for sharing your considerations! I love the approach. Is there a collection/overview of case studies of Software Developers, who had a lot of impact e.g., by community building, transitioning to AI safety, doing earning to give. I imagine that might be quite helpful for software developers, who are thinking about how to optimize their impact

Merci!

I think workplace advocacy is one thing workplace groups can do. It sounds more fitting than activism as activism has downside risks. Maybe create another tag for w&p groups to 

1. cover also professional groups e.g., ea finance network
2. to account for all activities workplace groups are doing e.g., simply retaining highly engaged EAs

Would propose to rename tag to: workplace and professional groups as this covers more broadly what EAs are doing at the workplace. alternative would be to create a new tag

+1 . Here  are some more considerations, which can help to develop a theory of change for a workplace/professional group. And here are three examples for different workplace/professional groups: 

1. the EA finance network (probably higher focus on  donations compared to other groups),
2. the UK civil service and policy network (probably higher  focus on helping people advance within their career/influencing institutions compared to other groups) and
3. the Effective Altruism and Consulting network (probably higher focus on career transitions compar

Would add to the list:

• get funded from the EA infrastructure fund to figure out what your high impact career path is
• work in grant making

Organizations I talked to, which seem to be especially excited about hiring former consultants (and also have many) include OpenPhil, Charity Entrepreneurship and the Centre for Effective Altruism (not speaking on their behalf though)

Agree. You can also look at the effective altruism and consulting network homepage for more advice and reach out for career advice. Eac-network.com here are also more considerations whether you should enter consulting: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/AY9bWEtSgguRC9gTL/considerations-and-advice-on-entering-management-consulting

Re 2): I  believe that the lack of time to inform oneself about other career options is definitely one reason why consultants don't leave earlier. This is something we are trying to solve with the EACN.

Thank you so much! If you are unsure whether you should apply for consulting, you can also reach out to Jan-Willem van Putten, who does a fantastic job in giving insights to students on behalf of the EACN

Agree. We already organized several events with 180° as part of the effective altruism and consulting network (as well as several 180° consultants supporting us to build the network). I believe there is room for more collaboration and synergies as people were super excited about the EA mindset

Already done.

Hi Peter,

I already created a directory for EA aligned consultants.

Best,

Jona

Love the idea of a having call and a pilot project (if this is what is most useful). We might even explore the options for pro bono work in the EACN as I know that some partners in BCG are looking for strong partnerships in their regions. I imagine that might also be the case for McKinsey, Accenture, Bain, ... .

I also agree that almost all consultancies already do EA-aligned work (not to the extent, we would like them to of course) and have expertise in many relevant fields. E.g., my last project was to do an impact assessment (incl. counterfactual impact ... (read more)

Posting as an individual who is a consultant, not on behalf of my employer

Thanks for the great post and the insightful comments! Building on your thoughts some additional comments from a consultants perspective (Worked two years at BCG on 10+ projects in the public, private and social sector; founded the Effective Altruism and Consulting Network; was Vice-Pres. for EA Austria):

1. On the need for consulting services: Generally speaking, I agree that consultancy can in specific circumstances (e.g., clearly defined objective, no expertise or free resources inhou

Thanks for the great questions!

Re 1:  

1. I started by talking to colleagues about EA to see if they are interested at all
2. Created slack channel/whatsapp group and added people who are interested
3. Organized events/gave EA intro talks to gain traction

Re 2:

1. Set-up homepage, directory and facebook group
2. Added people I knew, who would be interested in this

Both quite easy and can be managed very efficiently.

Thanks!