All of Ramiro's Comments + Replies

Anyone else consders  the case of Verein KlimaSeniorinnen Schweiz and Others v. Switzerland (application no. 53600/20) of the European Court of Human Rights a possibly useful for GCR litigation?

Elon Musk? So last year... 2024 is time for Trump scandals.
Let's buy some Truth shares and produce new scandals!

you can totally have scandals involving dead or imaginary people. So, definitely no.

2
Guy Raveh
23d
Right? Also you can have a person turn on the scandal machine, which then creates more than one scandal associated with them.

I'm not sure where is the best place to share this, but I just received a message from GD that made think of Wenar's piece: John Cena warns us against giving cash with conditions | GiveDirectly (by Tyler Hall)
Ricky Stanicky is a comedy about three buddies who cover for their immature behavior by inventing a fictitious friend ‘Ricky’ as an alibi. [...]

When their families get suspicious, they hire a no-name actor (played by John Cena) to bring ‘Ricky’ to life, but an incredulous in-law grills Ricky about a specific Kenyan cash transfer charity he’d supposedl

... (read more)

As a civil servant from a developing country, I can say that those estimates mean almost nothing. I don't think they are well invested, and they are tiny in comparison to adaptation gaps
I think there's a huge problem of prioritization when it comes to adaptation investment - because developing countries seldom link infrastructure resilience to adaptation policies

Answer by RamiroFeb 22, 20242
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I think there's a relevant distinction to be made between field building (i.e., developing a new area of expertise to provide advice to decision-makers - think about the history of gerontology) and movement building (which makes me think of advocacy groups, free masons, etc.). Of course, many things lie in-between, such as neoliberals & Mont Pelerin Society.

2
jackva
2mo
Yeah, that's true, though in Luke's treatment both are discussed and described as roughly equal -- there's no indication given that either should be more promising on priors and, as you say, they will often overlap.

Thinking about this one year later, I realize that Global Catastrophic events are much like Carnival in Brazil: unlivable climatic conditions, public services are shut down, traffic becomes impossible, crowds of crazy people roam randomly through the streets... but without Samba and beaches, of course (or, in the case of Curitiba, without zombies selling you beer)

How consistent are "global risk reports"?

We know that the track record of pundits is terrible, but many international consultancy firms have been publishing annual "global risks reports" like the WEF's, where they list the main global risks (e.g. top 10) for a certain period (e.g., 2y). Well, I was wondering if someone has measured their consistency; I mean, I suppose that if you publish in 2018 a list of the top 10 risks for 2019 & 2020, you should expect many of the same risks to show up in your 2019 report (i.e., if you are a reliable predictor, ris... (read more)

3
Ian Turner
3mo
I guess any report must be considered on its own terms but I’ve been pretty down on this stuff as a category ever since I heard the Center for Strategic and International Studies was cheerleading the idea that there were WMDs in Iraq.

Let me briefly try to reply or clarify this:

I think there is a massive difference between one's best guess for the annual extinction risk[1] being 1 % or 10^-10 (in policy and elsewhere). I guess you were not being literal? In terms of risk of personal death, that would be the difference between a non-Sherpa first-timer climbing Mount Everest[2] (risky), and driving for 1 s[3] (not risky).

I did say that I'm not very concerned with the absolute values of precise point-estimates, and more interested in proportional changes and in relative prob... (read more)

2
Vasco Grilo
3mo
Thanks for clarifying! I think you mean that the expected value of the future will not change much if one decreases the nearterm annual existential risk without decreasing the longterm annual existential risk.

Something that surprised me a bit, but that is unlikely to affect your analysis:

I used Correlates of War’s data on annual war deaths of combatants due to fighting, disease, and starvation. The dataset goes from 1816 to 2014, and excludes wars which caused less than 1 k deaths of combatants in a year.

Actually, I'm not sure if this dataset is taking into account average estimates of excess deaths in Congo Wars (1996-2003, 1.5 million - 5.4 million) - and I'd like to check how it takes into account Latin American Wars of the 19th century.

2
Vasco Grilo
3mo
Thanks for the note, Ramiro! Global annual deaths of combatants from 1996 to 2003 were 59.8 k according to Correlates of War, whereas the death tolls you mention would imply annual deaths of 431 k (= (1.5 + 5.4)/2*10^6/(2003 - 1996 + 1)) for the Congo Wars alone. So it looks like the vast majority of deaths of the Congo Wars are being attributed to civilians. I agree the above will not matter for the conclusions of my analysis. Based on the 2 estimates above, global deaths of combatants were 13.9 % (= 59.8/431) of all deaths in the Congo Wars, which much less than my central estimate of 50 %. However, I also used a pessimistic fraction of 10 % for the deaths of combatants as a fraction of total deaths (for all years, not just those of the Congo Wars), and still got astronomically low extinction risk.

Thanks for the post. I really appreciate this type of modeling exercise.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and there are some reflections it might be proper to share here. In summary, I'm afraid a lot of effort in x-risks might be misplaced. Let me share some tentative thoughts on this:

a) TBH, I'm not very concerned with precise values of point-estimates for the probability of human extinction. Because  of anthropic bias, or the fact that this is necessarily a one-time event, the incredible values involved, and doubts about how to extrapolate ... (read more)

5
Mo Putera
3mo
Perhaps not a direct answer to your question, but this reminded me of the Metaculus Ragnarok series.
2
Vasco Grilo
3mo
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Ramiro! On the one hand, I agree expected value estimates cannot be taken literally. On the other, I think there is a massive difference between one's best guess for the annual extinction risk[1] being 1 % or 10^-10 (in policy and elsewhere). I guess you were not being literal? In terms of risk of personal death, that would be the difference between a non-Sherpa first-timer climbing Mount Everest[2] (risky), and driving for 1 s[3] (not risky). It is worth noting one of the upshorts of the post I linked above is that priors are important. I see my post as an illustration that priors for extinction risk are quite low, such that inside view estimates should be heavily moderated. It may often not be desirable to prioritise based on point estimates, but there is a sense in which they are unavoidable. When one decides to prioritise A over B at the margin, one is implicitly relying on point estimates: "expected marginal cost-effectiveness of A" > "expected marginal cost-effectiveness of B". That makes a lot of sense if one is assessing interventions to decrease extinction risk. However, if the risk is sufficiently low, it will arguably be better to start relying on other metrics. So I think it is worth keeping track of the absolute risk for the purpose of cause prioritisation. Pre-mortems make sense. Yet, they also involve thinking about the causal chain. In contrast, my post takes an outside view approach without modelling the causal chain, which is also useful. Striking the right balance between inside and outside views is one of the Ten Commandments for Aspiring Superforecasters. I agree cascade effects are real, and that having a 2nd catastrophe conditional on 1 catastrophe will tend to be more likely than having the 1st catastrophe. Still, having 2 catastrophes will tend to be less likely than having 1, and I guess the risk of the 1st catastrophe will often be a good proxy for the overall risk. Relatedly, readers may want to ch

Thanks for this report. It'll be quite useful.
I'd like to share some critical remarks I had previously sent RCG by e-mail:

  1. Definition of “RCG”

<Los RCG se definen como aquellos con el potencial de infligir un daño grave al bienestar humano a escala global. > (p.2; cf. p. 6)

This definition might be too wide – it could include the global financial crisis of 2008, for instance. It is constrained, though, by the subsequent sentence: <Si bien se han identificado diversos riesgos que cumplen con esta definición, el presente trabajo se enfoca en ... (read more)

Opportunity for Austrians
Article by Seána Glennon: “In the coming week, thousands of households across Austria will receive an invitation to participate in a citizens’ assembly with a unique goal: to determine how to spend the €25 million fortune of a 31-year-old heiress, Marlene Engelhorn, who believes that the system that allowed her to inherit such a vast sum of money (tax free) is deeply flawed."

T20 Brasil | T20 BRASIL CALL FOR POLICY BRIEF ABSTRACTS: LET’S RETHINK THE WORLD
 

The T20 Brasil process will put forward policy recommendations to G20 officials involved in the Sherpa and Finance tracks in the form of a final communiqué and task forces recommendations.

To inform these documents, we are calling upon think tanks and research centres around the world – this invitation extends beyond G20 members – to build and/or reach out to their networks, share evidence, exchange ideas, and develop joint proposals for policy briefs. The latter should pu... (read more)

For me it's hard to believe that companies will spend much more with compliance thatn what they are already spending with marketing and offsets to greenwash their reputations. And when we implement carbon taxes / markets, they'll need to disclose that info anyway

Sorry for being contentious, but.... Cochrane is remarkably clever in his papers, but I fail to see cleverness here. For instance, one of his main rants is about SEC’s proposing that firms disclose their carbon footprint; it’d be financially irrelevant, right? However, there’s a strong consensus among economists and institutions on the need for higher carbon prices. So it’s expected that, in the long run, carbon intensive companies will pay more for their emissions; disclosing data on emissions is all about allowing investors to manage long-term financial ... (read more)

2
Larks
5mo
If it's a material risk risk, companies already have to disclose it as a risk factor. What makes this unusual is 1) it requires a very costly data gathering exercise 2) it opens companies up to very large legal risk about their precise methodology and 3) it is required of all companies, even if the risk is not material to them.  As an example, at least one of the economists in the poll you linked thought it would help investors make decisions, but was still a bad idea: It might be useful to consider an analogy with the opposite political valence. Many companies in the US employ, or deal with other companies who employ, immigrants, including illegal immigrants. This causes political risk; there may be changes to immigration rules, or an increase in enforcement and deportations, that could affect their operations. At the moment, companies for which this is material issue disclose it, generally using relatively high level language, and companies for whom it is not material do not. The equivalent of this SEC move would be if all companies had to report the exact number of immigrants they employed, broken down by visa category, national origin, and illegal status, for themselves, their contractors, their suppliers and their customers. This would help investors make decisions! But it would be extremely costly, and the motivation would clearly be political and an abuse of the SEC's remit.

Idea for free (feel free to use, abuse, steal): a tool to automatize donations + birthday messages. Imagine a tool that captures your contacts and their corresponding birthdays from Facebook; then, you will make (or schedule) one (or more) donations to a number of charities, and the tool will customize birthday messages with a card mentioning that you donated $ in their honor and send it on their corresponding birthdays.

For instance: imagine you use this tool today; it’ll then map all the birthdays of your acquaintances for the next year. Then you’ll selec... (read more)

Thanks. D'you have all the CURVE posts published as some sort of ebook somewhere? That would be helpful

4
Bob Fischer
5mo
Hi Ramiro. No, we haven't collected the CURVE posts as an epub. At present, they're available on the Forum and in RP's Research Database. However, I'll mention your interest in this to the powers that be!

Adding a new layer to your confusion: since most of the lives in question are probably newborns (as most of the mortality is captured by neonatal disorders), and since the time lag between one's specific donation and its corresponding effects is likely more than 9 months, this means that one's donation will probably impact the identity of the affected kids. If for some reason (e.g., non-identity problem) one believes that helping existing people is more important than helping future people, then this counts against donating to clean water projects.
(I totally disagree with this, ofc)

2
Vasco Grilo
5mo
Hi Ramiro, Interestingly, that point also applies to the effects on animals! Most of the animals who would suffer due to preventing the death of a newborn do not yet exist at the time the newborn was saved. Like you, I totally disagree with this kind of reasoning. Suffering is bad even if the action which led to it happened before the suffering being came into existence.

In case anyone is interested, Peter Turchin will show up on Monday in a study group I joined


The Sciences of Ethics and Political Philosophy Reading Group

Disentangling the evolutionary drivers of social complexity: A comprehensive test of hypotheses

Peter Turchin


Monday, November 13
2 PM [WET/UTC]
Online

In this session, the group will discuss the paper by Peter Turchin et al. (2022), “Disentangling the evolutionary drivers of social complexity: A comprehensive test of hypotheses” (Science Advances, 8(25). DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.abn3517). Session with the confirmed

... (read more)

Thanks for this.

I have seen many informative comments here, especially on the stats of the paper...

Let's suppose your postulated "30% all mortality reduction" effect is real; on your figure on GBD cause of deaths above "neonatal disorders" occupy almost the same area. So, if such an effect is real, it likely has to affect neonatal disorders - i.e., preterm birth complications, neonatal encephalopathy due to birth asphyxia and trauma, neonatal sepsis and other neonatal infections, haemolytic disease and other neonatal jaundice, and other neonatal disor... (read more)

Why aren't you running the Effective Thesis Exceptional Research Award for 2023?

OMG thanks for this. My bad. I edited the original to contemplate this.

It's kind of sad to revisit this discussion during SBF's trial

I recently heard a great episode on him on this podcast: https://spotify.link/pyTNXYsTODb

Come to Brazil. We can make room for +1bi individuals, easy. With nuclear winter, we may even manage to get some ski resorts ;)
(Ofc if we don't start a war w Argentina. That's the problem w South America)

My research group is designing a course on Global Risks for academic students in Brazil. I am looking for syllabi and teaching materials that could help inspire us. Right now I am using the WEF report, the Global Challenges report, the Legal Topics in Effective Altruism |and taking a look at the more practical topics in teaching materials from GPI. But I would like to see something from CSER, maybe? Anyone has any tips?

4
GideonF
8mo
Send me a DM if you're interested, I'd be happy to provide a bunch of resources and to put you in contact with some people who could help send a bunch of resources
8
Julia_Wise
8mo
There might be something useful here: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/Y8mBXCKmkS9eBokhG/ea-syllabi-and-teaching-materials 

Thanks for this. i just had a similar idea, and ofc I'm glad to see another EA had a similar insight before. I am no expert on the field, but I agree that this "atemporal avg utilitarianism" seems to be underrated; I wonder why. The greatest problem I see with this view, at first, is that it makes the moral goodness of future actions depend on the population and the goodness of the past. I suspect this would also make it impossible (or intractable) to model goodness as a social welfare function. But then... if the moral POV is the "POV of the universe", or... (read more)

Two “non-spoilers” for the movie Oppenheimer

Since the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists and the Elders have been talking about this lately…

1) "Now I become Death, the destroyer of worlds"

The famous passage from Bhagavad Gita (BG), the Hindu religious epic. It suggests that Nolan is associating Oppie with the terrible form of Vishvaruppa – call this the “promethean” interpretation. But Oppie is actually more similar to prince Arjuna: the hero with a crisis of conscience who doesn't want to join the battlefield of Kurukshetra because it will bring incontroll... (read more)

4
JP Addison
9mo
I thought it was a good movie, but was sad at how little it focused on: 1. The actual making of the bomb 2. The attempts of scientists to influence the politics of whether and how to use it 3. Moral regret

Thanks for this! Vegan pets is awesome (even a "not so strictly carinvore" would be super great", but I still think feral cats might be a worse (and more neglected) issue

I was wondering if you considered anyway to take into account "adversarial dynamics" (i.e., the industry increasing its investments in lobbying against such measures) and substitution effects (e.g., people spending more on other harmful products, such as alcohol)

4
Joel Tan
1y
Hi Ramiro, Those are good questions! (1) For substitution effects, we looked at (a) substitution with respect to home foods (i.e. the fear is we make outside food less sweet, so people just make their own food at home and add lots of sugar or sweet sauces); and (b) Substitution with respect to salty food (which leads to hypertension etc). (a) For substitution with respect to home foods: We found that this is likely not a material risk insofar as: * (i) Our taste for sweetness is adaptive, and reducing sugar intake makes high sugar food taste too sweet even as low sugar food tastes sweeter than before. This is in line with what is the case for salt, where the phenomena of desensitization also exists. * (ii) A mass media campaign will be looking to address this precise issue, and to the extent we expect behavioural change with respect to highly processed food, we have equal reason to expect change with respect to seasoning of home foods. (b) For substitution with respect to salty food: The evidence with respect on the cross-price elasticity is mixed, for as Dodds et al note: "A US study found that nutrient taxes targeting sugar and fat have a similar impact on salt consumption as a dedicated salt tax, likely because many foods, especially junk foods, that are high in sugar are also high in salt."; in contrast "A New Zealand experimental study ... [finds] that salt taxation led to a 4.3% increase in the proportion of fruit and vegetables purchased, but also a 3.2% increase in total sugars as a percentage of total energy purchases." Given this, we took that it would be reasonable to assume no net benefit or cost with respect to sugar consumption. (c) For alcohol, we didn't look at this explicitly - though per Teng et al, the evidence is mixed, and from my own sense from going through the literature is that there is a small but significant substitution effective, and this will have to be modelled more explicitly going forward.   (2) On industry - we do look at t

[...] this post is a high-level summary intended for busy forum readers who are definitely not browsing the forum when they should actually be working.

You have just become my favorite EA-charity.

Thanks for the post. I find it weird that we sort of neglect scalable interventions regarding non-communicable diseases (except for tobacco).

I was hoping that after covid-19 this would become a priority. Btw, I noticed that you do not use evidence associated with the pandemic - even though DMT was one of the main predictors of mortality:
Diabetes is most important cause for mortality in COVID-19 hospitalized patients: Systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC (nih.gov)

Diabetes prevalence and mortality in COVID-19 patients: a systematic review, meta-analysis... (read more)

3
Joel Tan
1y
I think the short of it is that trying to model the counterfactual impact of a reduction in diabetes prevalence on reduced COVID-19 burden would be too tough, relying as it does not just on complex epidemiological modelling but also inherently unknowable future scenarios. None of the experts we talked to raised this as a live issue, in any case, so my assumption was that post 2020-2022 it's not that significant compared to the global disease burden of DMT2 itself, especially on a long term basis.

Thanks for the post.

Maybe the answer is more mundane than you imagine: light pollution
I'm only half-joking. If you think about it, we are sort of the 1st or 2nd generation to have lived most of their waking lives indoors, without really looking at the stars - without ever perceiving why we call this galaxy Milky Way.

1
CMDR Dantae
1y
There has been a lot of talk about how red street lights could reduce light pollution. Unfortunately, like a bull seeing red, it apparently increases the level of violent crime severely. How unfortunate. This certainly does make one think. Studies have shown that simply looking at the stars is good for you and improves mental health. Perhaps we haven't done enough to treasure our skies?

Thanks for the post! When I first started studying intergenerational justice, I was kind of surprised that political philosophers in the area pay little attention to the debate on discount rates (not even to argue about how to decide it democratically), and put a lot of pressure on discussios on representation and on the so-called "boundary problem". (which is sort of curious: most of the scholars I've talked to buy the consequences of the nonidentity problem, and so conclude that future people don't really have rights... and yet, they think it's ok to dis... (read more)

+1 for the pun 'Costco Shareholders Cry “Fowl” Over Chicken Neglect'

oh i thought effective tourism would take care of making your post-EAG time awesome just imagine how an EAG Torres del Paine could be ;)

2
Agustín Covarrubias
1y
Ok, this is actually an awesome idea. EAG at the end of the world.

Because of timezones, the date of this post is displayed as Apr 2nd for me, and I read it while listening to a sad song saying "I've got this funny feeling that the end is near" (From "Mayflower, New york") - making it all a bit funnier

3[comment deleted]1y
Answer by RamiroMar 31, 20233
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not being fooled (even by yourself) to work on capabilities R&D

Btw, I just noticed that the GCR Act is followed by Subsection B - Technological Hazards 
Preparedness and Training that nobody is talking about...

And preceded by Sec. 7201-7211: Intragovernmental Cybersecurity Information Sharing Act and Sec. 7221-7228: Advancing American AI Act

Hi. I'll have to present WWOTF's first chapter to a class of philosophers and economists... I was wondering if someone has any ".pptx" about the book they'd be willing to share, pretty plz? 😅

Hi. I'll have to present WWOTF's first chapter to a class of philosophers and economists... I was wondering if someone has any ".pptx" about the book they'd be willing to share, pretty plz?

Thanks for this post.
Just one remark though:

The enactment of the Global Catastrophic Risk Management Act 

This links to the original proposal. However, as explained by Matt Boyd, the bill that was passed (with some changes - such as placing responsibility over Homeland Security instead of the President) is part of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2023  (p. 1290). 

5
JorgeTorresC
1y
Thanks for the comment Ramiro you are right in reference to point 3 of our summary which was modified, we invite you to read the complete article that we wrote where it is indeed stated that the responsibility now corresponds to the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management of the US, according to the approved law.  
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