(Image by Henri Cartier-Bresson, France, 1938)
I recently revisited this EAG talk by Helen Toner in 2019 about sustainable motivation, and in it, she says,
"I would love for people, when they leave this talk today, to ask someone about what they find joy and meaning in other than work. I think we should talk about those things and celebrate them. It’s a fun question. Try to diversify your sources of joy and meaning."
When I first listened to Toner’s talk some time ago, I dismissed it to a significant degree because it felt too relaxed to me. I was skeptical that an attitude that valued personal joy could lead to any meaningful impact.
I was wrong.
Since that lecture in 2019, Toner has gone on to have, in my opinion, a huge amount of impact through numerous accomplishments. I think even during my first listen I was too skeptical, but now, with Toner’s track record since then, it is very hard for me to justify skepticism towards valuing personal joy.
To make it even harder to justify that skepticism, I decided to reach out to a number of people having a positive impact on the world and asked them Toner’s question. That way, when I am once again doubting the value of joy, I can come back to this post and remind myself of its value.
Here are their responses to, “What do you find joy and meaning in besides work?”
Bella Forristal, Director of Growth at 80,000 Hours
The main non-work thing I get meaning out of is close relationships of care and love. If I'm not working or resting, the ~only thing I want to be doing is talking to or spending time with one or more of my 10 favourite people lol. I've gotten very lucky to have found such wonderful friends & loved ones!
Tiffany Bruno MS, RDN, Director of Education at Switch4Good
This is great timing, as I spent the past few days at the Grand Canyon and it brought me a level of joy I haven't felt in a while. Overall, I would say exploring new places on this beautiful planet and especially hiking brings me immense joy. It forces me to unplug and instead feel connected to nature, which can be so challenging in my day to day life.
Aaron Boddy, Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Shrimp Welfare Project
Great question! I really like that framing around diversifying sources of joy :)
I’m quite introverted and tend to recharge in fairly low-key ways. I’m very much a homebody, so a lot of what I enjoy is centered around being at home and spending time in familiar, comfortable environments.
A big one for me is animation - I studied computer animation, and I still love watching animated films (especially Pixar) and learning about how they’re made. I also spend a fair amount of time gaming, mostly story-driven single-player games, and I have a bit of a completionist streak, so I’ll often be working through open-world games while listening to audiobooks.
I also enjoy building block sets (i.e. LEGO, but typically Nanoblocks as they're cheaper), reading (mostly self-development), and listening to music (The Beatles, Tenacious D). And then more generally, just quiet time at home with good TV or films (anything but horror, and I do have a soft spot for so-bad-it’s-good movies).
Kevin Xia, Managing Director at Hive
I would say it is primarily through cooking. I'm a huge foodie, and I love cooking great, creative vegan food. German battle rap: I have a love for lyricism, and I find that that itch is scratched best by German acapella battle rappers and the musical Hamilton.
David Aaron Reinstein, Economist, and Founder and Co-Director of The Unjournal
The first thing that comes to mind is my wife, who provides a tremendous amount of moral support and encourages me to keep working towards my mission and goals.
Putting aside work, I'd say music, both listening to and playing music (I play brass instruments), hearing the dreams and aspirations of other people especially younger people (often about work), and spending time with animals -- I don't have any companion animals but I love dogs, also watching birds and things and seeing nature, especially through my wife's eyes. She has a real appreciation for it.
But it can be hard to find joy and motivation and continued inspiration. At the end of each day we try to remember "what was particularly nice today?”
Monica Chen, Executive Director at New Roots institute
I'd say reading books I adored in middle school and having picnics with guinea pigs.
Cameron Meyer Shorb, Executive Director at Wild Animal Initiative
Meaning I mostly get from my relationships (with my partner, my family, my housemates, my friends). Joy I deliberately seek out in places well-sheltered from meaning, because I have such a strong tendency to turn my hobbies into extensions of my vocation (e.g., learning about nature --> understanding animals --> help more animals!!!). Making costumes has been a reliable source of meaningless joy. I like sewing things that are historically inspired but firmly uprooted from their traditions: a sparkly silver kilt, an 18th century trade shirt out of garish fabric instead of the traditional white, and of course all things piratey.
Ulf Graf, Lecturer in Public Health at Halmstad University
Reading books is a wonderful way to do it. I am creating books with the help of Claude AI, because I think it is more fun to co-create the book. I used to write books myself but now I am more time constrained.😅
Max Taylor, Researcher at Animal Charity Evaluators
I'm definitely feeling the need to diversify my sources of meaning – thinking about AI and animal suffering all the time can be a lot... For me it's hiking, running, playing tennis, swimming, camping, and anything else that involves being active outside. After years of reading almost entirely non-fiction I’ve also recently started reading fiction again: I'm really enjoying Playground by Richard Powers at the moment, and am planning to read some super low-intensity stuff next (e.g., Hunger Games, Twilight…). As someone with limited musical talent I also really like creating songs using Suno.
Luisa Rodriguez, Podcast Host at 80,000 Hours
I think the thing I enjoy most that has nothing to do with my work or impact is being in really beautiful nature.
Sofia Balderson, Executive Director and Co-founder at Hive
My big one at the moment is guitar. I only picked it up recently, and I was genuinely surprised by how quickly I could play songs I love. I give it about 15 minutes a day, which sounds modest, but it has become one of my favourite parts of the day, just playing and singing to myself, completely absorbed in something that has nothing to do with work or impact or any of that.
Seth Green, Research Scientist at the Humane and Sustainable Food Lab at Stanford
I get a lot of meaning out of climbing and the community it’s brought. I went to Puerto Rico with some climbing friends in feb and in a week or so I’m going to France to boulder and explore Paris.
Mal Graham, Strategy Director at Wild Animal Initiative
"I do get joy from things (mainly reading extremely good books, watching excellent media, achieving some difficult mental or physical task, looking at things of extraordinary natural beauty, or seeing other people demonstrate high levels of kindness or generosity), but I'm afraid I've never found the concept of meaning very relevant, or really understood what it means."
Michelle Hutchinson, Director of Podcast at 80,000 Hours
For me, some things are:
- Playing video games with my 6 year old
- Long meandering evening conversations with close friends about how to understand other humans
- Knitting gifts for friends and their kids
- Communal singing, particularly inspiring songs like Brighter than Today
/end of responses
Thank you for taking the time to read through these responses. This is an opportunity to reflect on what you find joy and meaning in besides impact. It can be a sentence you write in the comments below, in a journal, on a napkin, or simply a thought in your head.
(Knitted cat by Michelle Hutchinson, colors chosen by her son)
Thank you for all those that responded to my emails, and Ulf Graf and Evan for looking at a draft. Any remaining errors I am responsible for.