All of Erin Braid's Comments + Replies

I just got my physical copy of the inaugural issue and I'm very happy with it! I love the cool-yet-professional design, color schemes, and infographics. I've ordered a copy for my parents and a copy for my parents-in-law, with offers to get them subscriptions if they like the first issue, and I'm feeling enthusiastic about this as a way to introduce people to EA-adjacent ideas and worldviews. I personally was nerdsniped into EA, drawn in by the fascinating problems and the efforts to think deeply and clearly about them. That's the experience I've wanted fo... (read more)

Something I personally would like to see from this contest is rigorous and thoughtful versions of leftist critiques of EA, ideally translated as much as possible into EA-speak. For example, I find "bednets are colonialism" infuriating and hard to engage with, but things like "the reference class for rich people in western countries trying to help poor people in Africa is quite bad, so we should start with a skeptical prior here" or "isolationism may not be the good-maximizing approach, but it could be the harm-minimizing approach that we should retreat to ... (read more)

4
Evan_Gaensbauer
2y
I'm aware "bed nets are colonialism" is kind of barely a strawman of some of the shallowest criticisms of EA from the political left but is that the literal equivalent of any real criticism you've seen?

but things like "the reference class for rich people in western countries trying to help poor people in Africa is quite bad, so we should start with a skeptical prior here" or "isolationism may not be the good-maximizing approach, but it could be the harm-minimizing approach that we should retreat to when facing cluelessness" 

For onlookers I want to point out that this doesn't read as leftist criticism. 

This is very close (almost identical) to what classical conservatives say:

From:

I t

... (read more)
5
Charles He
2y
I'm in favor of good leftist criticism and there isn't any arch subtext here:   I'm a little worried that left criticism is going to just wander into a few stale patterns: * "Big giant revolution" whose effects rely on mass coordination. * Activists are correct, in the sense that society can shift, if a lot of people get behind it * But I'm skeptical of how often it actually happens * In addition to how often, I suspect the real reasons it does can be really different and unexpected from common narrative * If it doesn't happen, it might rationalize decades of work, noise and burn out, and crowd out real work * The practices/actualization often seem poorly defined or unrealized * Defund the police, that came out of odious police abuse — did this go anywhere— was the particular asks viable in the first place? * I expect that if you looked at MLK and the patterns that caused his success, many people would be very surprised * A reasonable explanation is that the "founder effects", or "seating" of the causes/asks are defective—if so, it seems like they are defective because of these very essays or activists in some way * This strategy rationalizes a lot of bad behavior and combined with poor institutions, structures and norms, you tend to see colonization/inveiglement by predators/"narcissists" and "cluster B" personality types. * There's just bad governance in general and it leads to trashiness and repellence * I point out this same thought is behind a lot of movements (e.g. libertarianism), as well as apps  and businesses, and other things. * Since this "giant movement/revolution" can achieve literally any outcome, shouldn't we be suspicious of those who rely on it, versus  using other strategies that require resources, institutional competence and relationship building?   * "Value statements", equity or fairness * This just is a value thing * There's not much to be done here, if you value people on

I think the vocabulary is not fully separable from the ideology. As the latter evolves, I'd expect changes to be required in the former.

And for what it's worth, all the versions you gave are equally intellectually challenging for me to understand. The jargon is easier for some people but harder for others, most importantly to outsiders. This also means it's unfair to expect outsiders to voice their views in insider-speak.

9
Ulrik Horn
2y
Would you be interested in outside, non-EAs doing leftist critique? And if so, how would you convince them to participate by asking them to conform to our vocabulary? I am asking as I think that some of the best people to make a thoughtful critique of EA are placed in academia. If that is true, they would be much more interested in critiquing us if they are allowed to publish. And to publish there is a strong desire to "engage with and build on existing literature and thought in the field," meaning they want to draw on academic work on international aid, decolonialism, philanthropy, etc. 
9
Dawn Drescher
2y
Maybe something along the lines of: Thinking in terms of individual geniuses, heroes, Leviathans, top charities implementing vertical health interventions, central charity evaluators, etc. might go well for a while but is a ticking time bomb because these powerful positions will attract newcomers with narcissistic traits who will usurp power of the whole system that the previous well-intentioned generation has built up. The only remedy is to radically democratize any sort of power, make sure that the demos in question is as close as possible to everyone who is affected by the system, and build in structural and cultural safeguards against any later attempts of individuals to try to usurp absolute power over the systems. But I think that's better characterized as a libertarian critique, left  or right.  I can’t think of an authoritarian-left critique. I wouldn’t pass an authoritarian-left intellectual Turing test, but I have thought of myself as libertarian socialist at one point in my life.

I definitely agree with this. Here are a bunch of ideas that are vaguely in line with this that I imagine a good critique could be generated from (not endorsing any of the ideas, but I think they could be interesting to explore):

  • Welfare is multi-dimensional / using some kind of multi-dimensional analysis captures important information that a pure $/lives saved approach misses.
    • Relatedly, welfare is actually really culturally dependent, so using a single metric misses important features.
  • Globalism/neoliberalism are bad in the longterm for some variety of reas
... (read more)
3
John Bridge
2y
Also strong upvote. I think nearly 100% of the leftist critiques of EA I've seen are pretty crappy, but I also think it's relatively fertile ground.  For example, I suspect (with low confidence) that there is a community blindspot when it comes to the impact of racial dynamics on the tractability of different interventions, particularly in animal rights and global health.[1] I expect that this is driven by a combination of wanting to avoid controversy, a focus on easily quantifiable issues, the fact that few members of the community have a sociology or anthropology background, and (rightly) recognising that every issue can't just be boiled down to racism. 1. ^ See, for eg, my comment here.

Strong upvote. I'm a former leftist and I've got a soft spot for a few unique ideas in their memeplex. I read our leftist critics whenever I can because I want them to hit the quality target I know the ideas are worth in my mind, but they never do. 

If anyone reading this knows leftist critics that you think have hit a reasonable quality bar or you want to coauthor a piece for the contest where we roleplay as leftists, DM me on the forum or otherwise hit me up. 

I for one would listen to a podcast about shelters and their precedents! That's not to say you should definitely make it, since I'm not sure an audience of mes would be super impactful (I don't see myself personally working on shelters), but if you're just trying to judge audience enthusiasm, count me in!

Podcasts I've enjoyed on this topic (though much less impact-focused and more highly produced than I imagine you'd aim for): "The Habitat" from Gimlet Media; the Biosphere 2 episode of "Nice Try!"

1
shinybeetle
2y
I'd like to second this comment :)
1
Tereza_Flidrova
2y
Thanks a lot for this Erin! I give that a listen for inspiration & will post updates on this if/when I decide to go for it. 

Interesting. Thanks for sharing your findings and experiences!

I see [EA] as a key question of "how can we do the most good with any given unit of resource we devote to doing good" and then taking action upon what we find when we ask that.

I also consider this question to be the core of EA, and I have said things like the above to defend EA against the criticism that it's too demanding. However, I have since come to think that this characterization is importantly incomplete, for at least two reasons:

  1. It's probably inevitable, and certainly seems to be the case in practice, that people who are serious about answering thi
... (read more)
2
Luke Freeman
2y
Thanks Erin! I wouldn't say that EA is only about the key question, I just disagree that utilitarianism and an obligation to maximise are required or 'what EA is about'. I do agree that they are prevalent (and often good to have some upwards pressure on the amount we devote to doing good) 😀 

I understand that this is no longer relevant to your plans, but I'm curious about this:

Unfortunately, the result of the vooroverleg was that the charity as described above cannot be registered in the Netherlands. The main reason for this is that those who would directly benefit directly from the charity (the donors) are relatively well-off.

I'm used to the US landscape, where lots of organizations serving the well-off, from private schools to symphony orchestras, are nonprofits that take tax-deductible donations and have tax-exempt status. Is that not the case in the Netherlands?

2
bob
2y
We have those as well. I am still a bit out of my depth here, but I believe the rules are stricter when it comes to cash transfers than when comes to providing education. The lawyer I consulted did not feel the agency's position was particularly coherent, though. For associations like symphony orchestras, tax-exemption does exist but the process is completely different.

Love this question! I too would identify as a hopelessly pure mathematician (I'm currently working on a master's thesis in category theory), and I too spent some time trying to relate my academic interests to AI safety. I didn't have much success; in particular, nothing ML-related ever appealed. I hope it works out better for you!

8
Max_Daniel
2y
You might be interested in this paper on 'Backprop as Functor'. (I'm personally not compelled by the safety case for such work, but YMMV, and I think I know at least a few people who are more optimistic.)

Thanks for this post Julia! I really related to some parts of it, while other parts were very different from my experience. I'll take this opportunity to share a draft I wrote sometime last year, since I think it's in a similar spirit:

I used to be pretty uncomfortable with, and even mad about, the prominence of AI safety in EA. I always saw the logic – upon reading the sequences circa 2012, I quickly agreed that creating superintelligent entities not perfectly aligned with human values could go really, really badly, so of course AI safety was important in

... (read more)
9
Julia_Wise
2y
Yes, the drive to prove you Belong is another one of those under-the-surface things that's surprisingly powerful!

To support people in following this post's advice, employers (including Open Phil?) need to make it even quicker for applicants to submit the initial application materials

From my perspective as an applicant, fwiw, I would urge employers to reduce the scope of questions in the initial application materials, more so than the time commitment. EA orgs have a tendency to ask insanely big questions of their early-stage job applicants, like "How would you reason about the moral value of humans vs. animals?" or "What are the three most important ways our research ... (read more)

Maybe the process of choosing a community service project could be a good exercise in EA principles (as long as you don't spend too long on it)? 

I like this idea and would even go further -- spend as much time on it as people are interested in spending, the decision-making process might prove educational!

I can't honestly say I'm excited about the idea of EA groups worldwide marching out to pick up litter. But it seems like a worthwhile experiment for some groups, to get buy-in on the idea of volunteering together, brainstorm volunteering possibilities, decide between them based on impact, and actually go and do it. 

The subquestion of high salaries at EA orgs is interesting to me. I think it pushes on an existing tension between  a conception of the EA community as a support network for people who feel the weight of the world's problems and are trying to solve them, vs. a conception of the EA community as the increasingly professional project of recruiting the rest of the world to work on those problems too. 

If you're thinking of the first thing, offering high salaries to people "in the network" seems weird and counterproductive. After all, the truly committ... (read more)

8
Stefan_Schubert
2y
Fwiw that doesn't seem true to me. I think there are many people who wouldn't donate the excess (or at least not most of it) but who are still best described as truly committed.

I think this distinction is well-worded, interesting, and broadly correct.

If you're thinking of the first thing, offering high salaries to people "in the network" seems weird and counterproductive. After all, the truly committed people will just donate the excess, minus a bunch of transaction costs

I separately think there's a bunch of timesaving activities that "people "in the network" can spend money on," though of course it depends a bunch on details of whether you think the marginal EA direct work hour's value is closer to $10, $100, or $1000. 

Even... (read more)

Why I Apply to EA Orgs

There's been a lot of handwringing about people's obsession with getting the relatively few jobs at the relatively few explicitly EA-branded organizations. The discussions have been interesting, but they tend to miss the essential reason for this phenomenon in my experience: when you're an EA applicant, EA orgs may like you more than non-EA orgs do. A lot more.

Personally, I never felt much pressure, or even necessarily desire, to work only at explicitly EA organizations. I want to work as an analyst or researcher in an EA or EA-adjace... (read more)

3
A_lark
2y
Thank you for writing this. I think this points to an important point/risk/trade-off for people who take an EA path in their careers. EA can be really interdisciplinary, in a way that may not be legible outside EA. This is tricky for career planning.

Cash by Default       

Once upon a time, I found myself with a bunch of unconditional $25 charity gift cards from an every.org promotion. This seemed like a great opportunity to encourage the people in my life to pick charities to donate to, without the awkwardness of talking directly about how they should spend their own money. So I sent four gift card links and an explanation to a group chat with my four closest friends from college.

The first thing that happened was that one friend expressed enthusiasm, claimed a gift card, and donated... (read more)

3
WilliamKiely
2y
Interesting suggestion. I'm not familiar with anyone doing a donation match like this. It seems like having a default charity for matching money to go to could be counterproductive to the matcher's goals. E.g. Every.org wanted to get more people to use their platform to donate. But I think many people don't really find it more valuable for money to get directed to one charity over another. EAs are different in that regard. While we're certainly not unique in caring which charities money goes to, I think many people might think "Why should I donate when the money is already going to go to charity?" and decide not to participate. While generally I wouldn't advise people to do donation matches, would it be good for organizations already running them to make cash transfers the default use of the money if matching donors don't direct it elsewhere? Maybe. One benefit might be that it just gets people to think more about the value of directing money to one organization versus another, instead of merely thinking that they're raising more money for a charity of their choice.

I really appreciate this post Rose! My partner and I have noticed some of the same cross-pressures, though they stack up a little differently in our case. I'll say a bit more about my experience, in case anyone's interested, but mostly I wanted to say that I appreciated reading about yours. 

My partner and I are still young and only just starting our careers, so there's a lot of uncertainty, but we basically expect that my partner will have a lucrative and stable career in big tech, while I will have an erratic but potentially impactful career in EA. C... (read more)

I'd be happy to contribute by reading aloud! However, I don't have any specialty recording equipment, so you might not want to include me if you're going for high sound quality.