Head of marketing @ 80,000 Hours
1418 karmaJoined Feb 2020Working (0-5 years)Bethnal Green, London, UK


Hello, my name's Bella Forristal. I work at 80,000 Hours, as a marketer. I'm interested in animal advocacy, moral circle expansion, and normative ethics. Previously, I worked in community building with the Global Challenges Project and EA Oxford, and have interned at Charity Entrepreneurship. Please feel free to email me to connect at :)


Hey, thanks so much for replying in such detail — really appreciated! :)

(haha, yes, I had heard of some of the extra things you mentioned, but I think for someone just starting out they're really valuable to learn!!)

Hey, thanks for sharing! Are you up for sharing any more detail on the ads, for example:

  • What targeting settings did you use on the ads?
  • What creative (images/videos) did you use?
  • What copy (text that goes in the ad) did you use?
  • Did any of those do especially well?

Hey! A little feedback on your feedback form (hehe):

I think it should include a space for open-ended comment (Anything else you want to mention?) and/or qualitative comments, as well as just ratings, for the things you're asking about.

Putting my qualitative comments here instead:

  • I think the name is not very good — it sounds to me like a translation from another language, e.g. Japanese, and not like a phrase I would say as a native English speaker (I almost never say 'harmony'). It's also kind of long, and doesn't relate to what the product does.
  • The current Google sheet has a few typos in it
  • I think your current copy is too long and complex. It sounds technical and dry rather than clear and inviting. e.g. 'Individual dietary choices' - just say 'The way people eat' or e.g. 'but massive change will come from efforts - including those by animal welfare charities - to improve animal welfare through policy and technology.' this sounds like I expect it to come from a white paper by an animal charity rather than a web app for consumers/aimed at people who might donate to that charity. Of course that does depend on who your target audience is here :)
  • It looks like your sheet makes the assumption that eggs and milk use no animals for production, which (even if the underlying calculations work out ok - I didn't check) could be confusing

I signed up because of this post :) (I thought the time out from work was higher/GA was the only option)

That makes sense — I appreciate you doing that work & making calls about what to include; I bet there's a lot I'm missing!!

Ah, I wrote & meant 'a necessary condition for' — I hadn't misunderstood the argument in the way you're worried about in your second paragraph (but perhaps a useful clarification for anyone reading!)

My problem is I don't buy that 'any animal that is sentient would be motivated to play' — and ultimately I think the additional explanation you've provided here, about shared ancestry and neurophysiology, is interesting & relevant to think about re: which if any animals are sentient, but I think it just boils down to:

  1. Humans are sentient
  2. Humans have a shared ancestry and neurophysiology with other animals
  3. ?(Sentience depends on neurophysiology)? [fn]

C. Other animals are likely to be sentient

C2. Other animals are more likely to be sentient in accordance with the extent to which they share human ancestry and neurophysiology.

This argument, while IMO important/pretty compelling as a reason to start of with some moderate credence on animal sentience, doesn't do that much, and certainly couldn't, on its own, convince me of any necessary conditions for sentience — certainly not sensory play.

It also doesn't do anything to convince me that non-bird non-mammals are sufficiently different (in terms of shared ancestry and neurophysiology) from humans, such that we should think they're not sentient.

[fn] I'm unsure from your summary if Humphrey means to claim this or not, sorry!

Thanks for your summary!

I'll admit I didn't really follow the section 'sensation, sentition, and the ipsundrum' but the rest of it seems very weak, if any, evidence for the theory.

To pick one example: Why should I think sensory play is a necessary condition for sentience?

You could imagine a species which had all the neural architecture mammals & birds have, but had no limbs. I think we wouldn't observe it 'playing,' but I think Humphrey's theory still implies it's sentient.

What a nice idea! I'd buy this for a friend where I'd feel less comfortable making a donation in their name.

Question: What will you do with the un-redeemed vouchers?

In commerce, the company just keeps the money at a tidy profit. Would Effektiv Spenden just keep it?

Commenting to help out any other people confused by the mathematical notation, because I couldn't find this out with Google (but ChatGPT got it for me):

Expectation: In probability and statistics, 'E' is often used to denote the expected value of a random variable. For example, E(X) would represent the expected value of the random variable X.

(Of course, given that I didn't know that, I have no hope of following the entire post, but at least I now understand roughly what the claim is)

Hi! Thanks for this post and for your inspiring work :)

I think there might be a formatting issue with your 'impact per $' spreadsheet, where some of the columns and rows are misaligned, making it a little hard to read.

Also, a couple more questions about the model:

  1. What is 'welfare module' (column H)?
  2. How did you estimate that 50% of farmers would need to change their practices to comply?
  3. How did you estimate that 50% of farms would comply with the standard?
  4. Have you considered discounting for the fact that these certification schemes might have decided to make these changes anyway? Did they become more stringent in years prior to 2022/23?

I also wondered if you've thought about whether any of these certifications might have counterveiling negative impacts, e.g. by allowing farmers to increase stocking density, or by encouraging consumers to purchase seafood over other food. I haven't read any of the certifications in full so these examples might be total nonsense :)

No worries if you don't have a chance to get to these questions!

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