All of ChrisSmith's Comments + Replies

(I don't lead on the air quality work, so be more careful with this comment that the others that I've left here).

India wasn't picked as an example to illustrate the importance and neglectedness of air quality work. Rather, India has been the dominant setting for Open Philanthropy's air quality work to date - it even has its own updated web page. You can read more about why Open Philanthropy launched the work on South Asian air quality here and here. Santosh Harish, the Program Officer who leads that work, recently gave an excellent interview to the 80,000 ... (read more)

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NickLaing
5mo
Thanks heaps for the reply Chris! Yes I have read the OpenPhil work on air quality. That explains to some extent the India choice, although I still feel like its a misleading graphic. I would be interested to hear what you found interesting and compelling about the 80,000 hours interview? Maybe though you can't say much (or anything) given your position at GiveWell. I was impressed by his knowledge and passion about the issue, but found his arguments about potentially tractable interventions somewhat unconvincing. I struggled to see a clear theory of change in his proposed interventions. I can definitely be convinced, but just aren't right now. think its likely India will greatly reduce air pollution over the next 20 years, but its hard for me right now to envisage how marginal funding will make a difference. Obviously I'm not an expert at all though so could easily just be dead wrong. If anything the interview made me a bit less convinced than I was before that air quality in India was likely to be a cost-effective cause area. I was also surprised that he didn't talk about the significant domestic funding going towards cleaning the air as well.

The $5-10M figure is inclusive of $5M per year from that grant, which was recommended by GiveWell but funded by Open Philanthropy.

The $5-10M for alcohol work is indeed LMIC only - GiveWell document from 2021 here. I think the main funder missed from that is the DG Murray Trust in South Africa, whose alcohol harms reduction work is exclusively South Africa oriented.

There isn't a development assistance for health estimate from the IHME for alcohol policy work, lead exposure, or suicide prevention through means restriction in the way that there is for tobacco. One reason for displaying these funding estimates as a range is that they are very uncertain and vulnerable to questions of what... (read more)

1
Matt_Sharp
5mo
Thanks for clarifying!  Interesting point about Drinkaware - I didn't know it was partly industry-funded. Given this, even though I'd hope the information they provide is broadly accurate, I'm assuming it is more likely to be framed through the lens of personal choice rather than advocating for government action (e.g. higher taxes on alcohol). I presume the $5-10M also only refers to alcohol-specific philanthropy? I would expect there to be some funding for it via adjacent topics, such as organisations that work on drugs/addiction more broadly, or ones that focus on promoting nutrition and healthy lifestyles. 

Yes, we do consider the benefits of alcohol, including that many people enjoy it. 

James Snowden put together a short document discussing this when he made the largest current Open Philanthropy alcohol grant in 2021 (the grant was recommended by GiveWell but funded by Open Philanthropy; any extension / renewal will sit within Open Philanthropy). At the time GiveWell / James applied a 10% reduction to the (implicitly net) burden of alcohol harm on this basis.

I'm reviewing this issue in greater detail now.

2[anonymous]5mo
Thanks for this. I'm not sure I follow the claim that if you assume that alcohol taxation merely shifts the tax burden, there aren't strong reasons to think the deadweight loss will be greater from alcohol taxation vs other forms of taxation. The subjective wellbeing study found that drinking increases people's wellbeing by almost as much as spending time with friends. It seems unlikely to me that if the tax were instead eg on income that the benefits of the income would be as large as this. Intuitively, this seems off. On your botec on the benefits of alcohol, a lot rides on you assuming that a death from alcohol accounts for 40 units of value (I'm assuming this means life years lost, but not sure). But in the sheet you suggest that most deaths would be among older people. If you revise this figure to 10 years of life lost (which seems much more plausible to me), on the median case, the value wiped out by reduced booze enjoyment is 67% on the median case and 134% on the pessimistic (or optimistic, depending on your view) case. If you reduce the years of life lost to 5 years, then on the median case, the 134% of the value is wiped out. i.e. it seems like on some more plausible assumptions, the policy is net negative.  On the other hand, none of this considers hangovers. 
8
Karthik Tadepalli
5mo
The dismissal of consumer surplus-based ways to value alcohol consumption is puzzling. The main justification is that "it seems likely to us that consumers are behaving irrationally", but this is an overly broad statement. What fraction of alcohol consumption is irrational? If you believe that 30% of consumers are consuming irrationally high amounts, you could easily exclude the 30% heaviest drinkers and estimate consumer surplus for the remainder. In general, you can choose a population where you believe people are consuming more out of enjoyment than addiction. This would require a bit of primary investigation, but you could use Nielsen scanner data with alcohol prices and consumption to a) drop the people who drink the most, b) estimate consumer surplus on the remainder. I'm pretty sure Nielsen has similar data in some LMICs if you want a more representative population. My prior is that you would arrive at substantially more than a 10% downward adjustment.

Thanks for sharing! I occasionally worry that I'd struggle emotionally to go back to E2G/most of my impact being via donations, so this is a helpful anecdatum.

2
Yonatan Cale
5mo
Yeah, I think maybe seeing a post like this would have helped me transition earlier too, now that you say so
6
Dawn Drescher
5mo
Same… Anna Riedl recommended working for something that is at least clearly net positive, a product that solves some important problem like scaling Ethereum or whatever. Emotionally, the exact order of magnitude of the impact probably doesn't make a proportional difference so that the motivation will be there, and the actual impact can flow from the donations. Haven't tried it yet, but I will if I go back to ETG.
Answer by ChrisSmithOct 13, 202318
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In the spirit of quick answers, yes

R21 is good, the case for going faster is ethically strong and is pretty well articulated already, making this a relatively easy lift. Concerns around relative cost effectiveness vs other malaria control measures (e.g. bednets, SMC) are reasonable questions to raise but largely irrelevant for this given the proposal is to accelerate something that will happen anyway, the funding for delivering a malaria vaccine is largely secured already (via Gavi, Global Fund, national governments) and is unlikely to meaningfully funge more cost-effective alternatives. R21 is much cheaper than RTS,S, and almost certainly more effective.

It does not. There are a small number of co-funding situations where money from other donors might flow through Open Philanthropy operated mechanisms, but it isn't broadly possible to donate to Open Philanthropy itself (either for opex or regranting).

2
Nathan Young
7mo
Lol well no wonder then. Thanks both. 

This comment is an agree vote for Client Earth and a disagree vote for anyone arguing the case for endocrine disruptors as an issue that EAs should spend lots of time or money on

2
Ben Stewart
7mo
How come, out of curiousity? I haven't looked into EDCs at all, but on a skim - is it non-neglectedness, weak evidence, both, weak importance, other things?

Jerusalem Demsas, staff writer at the Atlantic focused on housing and infrastructure development and visiting Fellow at Center for Economy and Society.  

Good to interview on YIMBY movement and American infrastructure.

Adrian Hill, Director of the Jenner Institute and Professor of Vaccinology in Oxford, co-leader of the group that created the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine, leader of the group who developed the R21 malaria vaccine.

Good to interview on Covid-19, on getting vaccines into the world (cf. R21 vs RTS,S in terms of country approval processes), vaccines in general, global health R&D.

Answer by ChrisSmithSep 13, 202336
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Someone who runs or has built a medium to large location-identified EA community but isn't based in the UK or the Bay Area (e.g. Germany, New York, London, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, France, Switzerland, Poland, Australia, Israel, UAE, Mexico)

9
Imma
7mo
Someone from Doneer Effectief, Effektiv Spenden, De Tien Procent Club or another local Effective giving org

Oh classic, she already appeared on the podcast in 2021. I no longer endorse this suggestion, since I don't think the context for SRM has changed enough since she last appeared.

I think another discussion presenting SRM in the context of GCR might be good; there has now been a decent amount of research on this which probably proposes actions rather different from what SilverLining presents.

SilverLining is also decently controversial I the SRM community, so some alternative perspectives would probably be better than Kelly

Kelly Wanser,  ED of SilverLiving, an NGO focused on advocating for safe research into solar radiation management to address near term climate risks.

Good to interview on climate change and safe technological research and development.

I thought her Volts interview was well conducted.

[This comment is no longer endorsed by its author]Reply
2
ChrisSmith
7mo
Oh classic, she already appeared on the podcast in 2021. I no longer endorse this suggestion, since I don't think the context for SRM has changed enough since she last appeared.
Answer by ChrisSmithSep 13, 202329
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John Nkengasong, US Global AIDS Coordinator, former first Director of the African CDC, and professional virologist.

Good to interview on PEPFAR (which is a Big Deal), efforts to address the global burden of disease by local, bilateral, and multilateral funders and other actors. 

Andrew Youn, founder of One Acre Foundation and co-founder of D-Prize. 

Good to interview on social entrepreneurship, working in low-income contexts as an outsider, experience of being a (small) GiveWell grantee, engaging billionaires and other donors with working to support the world's poorest people, and agricultural productivity improvement.

Amrita Ahuja, senior philanthropic staffer (Douglas B Marshall Foundation, CRI Foundation), co-founder and current Board Chair of Evidence Action.

Good to interview as someone with great experience in philanthropy,  leadership in social entrepreneurship, and familiarity-but-not-identity with effective altruism.

Answer by ChrisSmithSep 13, 202329
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Johannes Haushofer (and / or colleagues), President and CEO at Malengo, and Professor of Economics at Stockholm University.

Good to interview on cash transfers, supporting immigration, experience of moving from academic work to social entrepreneurship. Broadly familiar with effective altruism and may have useful reflections on that too. 

Tom Chivers, science writer at Semafor and author of The Rationalist's Guide to the Galaxy: Superintelligent AI and the Geeks Who Are Trying to Save Humanity's Future

Good to interview as someone who is broadly familiar with rationalist / x-risk / EA communities but not an active party. 

Madhu Pai, MD and epidemiology professor focused on tuberculosis

Good to interview on tuberculosis, why it hasn't been addressed to the same extent as other health conditions, what individuals, funders, and governments could do to reduce the burden; and on what effective altruists or others focused on cost-effectiveness might be missing in their current models of doing good.

Answer by ChrisSmithSep 13, 202341
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Anna Christina Thorsheim, ED and co-founder of Family Empowerment Media.

Good to interview on charity incubation, reproductive choice, working with local partners as an outsider.

1
Vaipan
7mo
Yes !!!

Heidi Williams, Director of Science Policy at Institute for Progress and professor of Economics at Dartmouth.

Good to interview on economics of science and progress, the economics of pharma and health R&D, and innovation

Matt Clancy, Research Fellow in Metascience at Open Philanthropy, Senior Fellow at the Institute for Progress, and author of New Things Under the Sun, a living literature review of what academia knows (and doesn't know) about innovation

Good to interview on making science better, progress studies, and frontier growth (whilst having an understanding of longtermist concerns with technological safety)

Stefan Dercon, author of Gambling on Development, IMV the best book on development economics published this year, former DFID Chief Economist and FCDO Policy Advisor, currently at Blavatnik School in Oxford. 

Good to interview on why some countries grow and some don't, and what both insiders and outsiders might be able to do about it

 

Thanks for sharing Justin! 

I'd recommend anyone who's ever worried about our ability to make global progress against big problems read the annual updates from UNAIDS in the late 1990s/early 2000s and compare to more recent updates.

Drawing on your lessons above, what are the PEPFARs we should be pushing for today?

This is a really helpful post - thank you! It does blow my mind slightly that this isn't more broadly practiced, if the argument holds, but I think it holds! 

I don't know enough about the market for academic papers, but I wonder if you'd be interested in writing this up for a more academic audience? You could look at some set of recent RCTs and estimate the potential savings (or, more ambitiously, the increase in power and associated improvement in detecting results) 

Given that the argument is statistical rather than practical in any way that is ... (read more)

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Rory Fenton
1y
Thanks Chris, that's a cool idea. I will give it a go (in a few days, I have an EAG to recover from...) One thing I should note is that other comments on this post are suggesting this is well known and applied, which doesn't knock the idea but would reduce the value of doing more promotion. Conversely, my super quick, low-N look into cash RCTs (in my reply below to David Reinstein) suggests it is not so common. Since the approach you suggest would partly involve listing a bunch of RCTs and their treatment/control sizes (so we can see whether they are cost-optimised), it could also serve as a nice check of just how often this adjustment is/isn't applied in RCTs For bio, that's way outside of my field, I defer to Joshua's comment here on limited participant numbers, which makes sense. Though in a situation like early COVID vaccine trials, where perhaps you had limited treatment doses and potentially lots of willing volunteers, perhaps it would be more applicable? I guess pharma companies are heavily incentivised to optimise trial costs tho, if they don't do it there'll be a reason!
2
JoshuaBlake
1y
Often recruiting is the bottleneck in biomedicine so you want to maximise the power for a given number of participants

The basic idea is that we mostly pay for drugs based on volume (e.g. if a manufacturer charges $50 per insulin vial, they want to sell lots of vials), but that mechanism is inappropriate for novel antibiotics, since there are major societal benefits to not over using new antibiotics but retaining them as last resort drugs. This means that it is ~impossible for developers of novel antibiotics to be economically viable. A subscription model de-links payment and volume - the provider is paid for having created and made the drug available, irrespective of volu... (read more)

3
Dawn Drescher
1y
Fascinating, thanks! I’ll add that to my repertoire of solutions to mechanism design problems with funding!

GiveWell / Open Philanthropy have funded CHAI.

I think there's value in some organizational diversity / having multiple shots on goal, and I'm excited to see what comes out of both CHAI's ongoing work and efforts by Charity Entrepreneurship and others to create effective non-profits.

6[anonymous]1y
Agree - definitely value in organizational diversity.

Thanks for writing this Nick, I'm sympathetic and strongly upvoted (to declare a small COI, I work at Open Philanthropy). I will add two points which I don't see as conflicting with your post but which hopefully complement it.

Firstly, if you're reading this post you probably have "EA resources". 

You can donate your own money to organisations that you want to. While you can choose to donate to e.g. a CEA managed EA Fund (e.g. EA Infrastructure Fund,  EA Animal Welfare Fund) or to a GiveWell managed fund, you can equally choose to donate ~wherever ... (read more)

Hi Nick, thanks for engaging.

Part of the rationale for the Regranting Challenge was that it might be possible to identify funders who already have the infrastructure to deploy funding effectively at scale, rather than creating duplicative philanthropic infrastructure. In 2021, Open Philanthropy recommended ~$400M of grants with an average staff number of ~40 (so ~$10M / FTE). To compare, the Gates Foundation granted $6.7B with a staff of 1,736 (so <$4M per staff person); Wellcome Trust moved £1.23B with a staff of ~800 (so <$2M per staff person).* No... (read more)

6
NickLaing
1y
Thanks for that fantastc reply appreciate it - makes a lot of sense. A brief look at DIV indeed surprised me by the quality of organisation that they are funding. I just usually rile at USAID because I have seen their multi million dollar projects achieve nothing (or negative value) again and again here in Northern Uganda. But if they are regranting like that to great orgs than indeed it solves that problem.

I am grateful for this post and think it demonstrates bravery that Rohit didn't need to show. He's a thoughtful, accomplished professional who has approximately no personal incentive to writing this out. 

I hope readers who wish for a healthy community around the ideas of effective altruism, and who want thoughtful engagement from people exploring similar questions that effective altruists consider important in good faith, reflect on the damage that the discourse of the past few days (and the incident that kicked it off in terms of Bostrom's poor state... (read more)

Small suggestion - could you include some text on the front page about who you think the survey is for (e.g. is it everyone who self-identifies with the term effective altruist? anyone who considers themselves part of the EA community? someone who has read a book / listened to a podcast about effective giving / longtermism / farmed or wild animal welfare?). 

I appreciate that the sampling frame here is extremely difficult and I'm supportive of trying to survey ~everyone of relevance, but the way it's set up now it's not clear to me who you're trying to... (read more)

5
David_Moss
1y
Thanks for the suggestion! We can certainly add something about this to the landing page. [And have now done so] I would also note that this text is usually also already included where the survey is distributed. i.e. when the survey is distributed through the EA Newsletter or CEA social media, it will go out with a message like "If you think of yourself, however loosely, as an “effective altruist,” please consider taking the survey — even if you’re very new to EA! Every response helps us get a clearer picture" before people see the survey.  That kind of message didn't seem so necessary on the EA Forum announcement, since this is already a relatively highly engaged audience.

[Context - I managed the Cause Exploration Prizes]

Thank you Gavriel for taking the time to write this out and thank you again for your original submission on ways that philanthropic funders can help address indoor air quality, which I encourage others to check out. I'm really sorry to hear you felt burnt out after completing the entry.

Although essay prizes and contests are quite prevalent in the EA community, this was very much an experiment for global health and wellbeing cause prioritization team at Open Phil. A major objective of the lower value prizes ... (read more)

Thanks for writing this, it's an excellent first forum post and a great note on an important topic that is slightly under the EA radar. 

You identified the $20M (IRC) and $7M (ALIMA) grants Open Philanthropy made in 2021 through GiveWell for the treatment of malnutrition. I wanted to draw your attention to another series of grants that the Open Philanthropy Science team have made to improve the formulation of Ready to Use Therapeutic Food

My quick answers to your questions are that RUTF and other high impact malnutrition work is plausibly cost-ef... (read more)

2
leosn
2y
Thank you very much, Chris, for the complement and the links. Interesting, and I think valid, point on 'if mega charities should be assessed, then should those with scale take responsibility'. Thanks again; I donated to the GiveDirectly one, but glad for your perspective on StC, since I was not sure if it was in the same league at all.

Hi jserv! I'll aim to say a bit more about the nuts and bolts of the process in an update before the end of the year, but prize selection was dominated by blind, independent review. I'm following up with you privately on tuberculosis.

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Jon Servello
2y
Thank you! 

Hi Siebe - thank you again for your entry! Unfortunately we don't have capacity to provide feedback on every submission. There were many useful and interesting pieces of work that didn't receive a prize.

Thank you Chris, that's understandable.

How about public feedback on just the top 4 though? Or even just the #1. I find it odd that, in a competition of this scale, no specific reasons are provided for why you picked these winners.

A lot of people put a lot of effort into these reports. Providing reasons why you pick certain winners seems to be like a basic aspect of running a competition in a way that's respectful to participants. This helps participants to compare their own submissions and learn from that. (I think the reward for good faith submissions is a nice contribution to that, and I'm grateful for it, but I don't think it's a replacement)

Hi arghya - sorry I missed this post. Just as a reminder, we're paying $200 for the first 200 submissions made in good faith, so don't feel put off submitting something if you don't think you have time to write something that you think will be competitive for the top prizes.

We suggest my colleague Lauren Gilbert's shallow on civil conflict as an example of a shallow investigation of a potential cause area. She's also published one more recently on telecoms in LMICs. There's also the guidance page of the Cause Exploration Prizes website. 

Looking forwar... (read more)

I enjoyed reading this, thank you for writing it. Two things:

Firstly, I wondered if you were aware of this recent GiveWell scoping grant to Precision Development (PxD) which explores something very close to what you're suggesting - it's asking them to come up with an evaluation design (which could by an RCT) for their work on providing information to smallholder farmers, which GiveWell is then open to funding ("we think there's a 70% chance we will provide a grant to fund implementation, and evaluation of PxD's agriculture program...40% chance we'll provid... (read more)

Suggestions of scientific research and lobbying / advocacy, or other activities where cost-effectiveness are hard to measure are all potentially valid suggestions and would be eligible for prizes (and the $200 participation awards). For each of these I'd say that costs are relatively estimable based on what individual research projects costs, current research spending in an area, the cost of comparable advocacy campaigns etc. I agree that the chances of success are more difficult, but they can be estimated to at least some extent based on comparable base r... (read more)

All of those things are ok. Open Phil staff shouldn't be listed as co-authors since they are not eligible for the prizes. A brief acknowledgement section is welcome if you've had substantial input from others who are not co-authors. 

If you are submitting an unpublished piece of writing which you've already produced, please make sure it is answering a question that we've put forward and is geared towards the perspective of a funder (see our guidance page for more detail)

Yes, a broader proposal on scientific reproducibility as a potential cause area would be appropriate for this. Your proposed project could be an example grantee, but it would be great idea to explore other ways that a funder could help address the problem as well (even if you conclude that something like I4R is the most cost-effective opportunity)

1
Michael_Wiebe
2y
Thanks!

This is a good question, and it's certainly something that could be clearer on the website. The closest thing to what you're asking for is here but the page is slightly dated and is due to be refreshed soon. Some of the focus areas are also at a very high level of abstraction (e.g. global health and development) which should not be read as meaning we don't want suggestions for opportunities within those focus areas.

On the page for the new cause area prompt it specifies deliberately that we are open to suggestions for new problems to work on,... (read more)

Yes - this fits within our GHW portfolio. From the FAQ page:

Can I write about non-human animals?

Yes. Open Philanthropy is a major funder of work to improve farm animal welfare. If you want to write about a potential new cause area where the primary beneficiaries are non-human animals, please use the open prompt.

Sorry to hear! I think you might have clicked it during the split-second I was updating that page. Please could you give it another try and send hello@causeexplorationprizes.com a screenshot of whatever error you're getting if it doesn't work

6
Kirsten
2y
It's working now, thanks.

I was about to delete my post (thanks Gleb_T for the quick change of name) but noticed a downvote. Could that person come forward and explain why they thought my post was unhelpful?

1
Gleb_T
9y
I'd also like to know that. I think your point was right on and thanks for helping improve the title.

I don't particularly object to the content of the post, but could you please consider rewriting the title?

"Overcoming emotional resistance" honestly sounds like something deeply unpleasant pick up artists write about coercing women into unwanted sex (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickup_artist#Practices)

1
ChrisSmith
9y
I was about to delete my post (thanks Gleb_T for the quick change of name) but noticed a downvote. Could that person come forward and explain why they thought my post was unhelpful?
2
Gleb_T
9y
Thanks, appreciate the suggestion! I edited the title.

I really enjoyed reading this post, and I'm pleased to see an effective altruist making a case for family planning as an effective cause. You sound particularly well informed about development issues - have you laid out your personal or professional background somewhere? I've asked to join your Effective FP facebook group

0
tjmather
9y
Thanks. My professional background is as a tech entreprenuer, my LinkedIn profile has more details. I've learned about development issues mostly by searching Google Scholar, reading GiveWell's website, and talking to knowledgeable people.

My guess for maximising salary would be something which is going to make you into a quant trader or financial engineer. There is a useful discussion on this site: https://www.quantstart.com/articles/Why-a-Masters-in-Finance-Wont-Make-You-a-Quant-Trader

Strongly urge Trinity.

It will be easier to get a job in almost any sector with a degree from Trinity rather than a degree from Galway (particularly outside Ireland), you will probably meet more interesting/driven people there, and you can try to make your PPES degree more quantitative if you want through particular choices (eg the econometrics option in third year economics or quantitative methods in fourth year economics), although it is certainly too early to be making specific choices about modules at this stage!

As others have said, it will also keep your options broader, which is valuable for all of us but particularly those of us who are still trying to work out what we are particularly good at.

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