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Amber Dawn7
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fwiw I disagree with this. People often 'advertize' or argue for things on the Forum - e.g. promoting some new EA project, saying 'come work for us at X org!', or arguing strongly that certain cause areas should be considered. The main difference with this post is that the language is more 'advertizing-esque' than normal - but this seems to me an aesthetic consideration. I'm not sure what would be gained by OP rewriting it with more caveats. 

Re "one of the most effective charities", OP does immediately justify this in the bullet points below - it's recommended by The Life You Can Save, and Givewell says it 'may be in the range of cost-effectiveness of our top charities'. 

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See in context
by gogreatergood
2 min read 5

-20

Building effective altruismGlobal health & developmentEffective altruism in the mediaEffective altruism messaging
Frontpage

July 9, 2022 is International Skinny Dip Day.

Join us (skinnydipday.org) as we 

  1. EXPERIENCE and grow our own body positivity and self/other acceptance.
  2. CURE women who have had their bodies injured and shamed (via Fistula Foundation).
International Skinny Dip Day

Fistula Foundation 

...is widely regarded as one of the most effective charities in the world. 

 

Skinny Dip Day 

...is an established (yet scattered / underutilized) concept:

 

🌊 Dippin’ — On a Mission 🌊

We are growing — and we hope you will ride the wave with us?

2019: $871 raised across 3 locations
2021: $5275 raised across 8 locations (6x increase)
2022: 14 locations (and counting) signed up so far.

2021 Results

 

QUESTIONS:

  1. Are publicity stunt style events (which are not explicitly linked to EA; and which are not overly dangerous etc) an effective method at highlighting effective giving, and EA in general?

     
  2. Is Fistula Foundation a good "gateway drug" to effective giving, and EA in general?
  • pulls at heart strings
  • easy to understand quickly
    • Fistula Foundation clearly CURES and EMPOWERS specific people for every x amount of money you raise for them. And builds up local health infrastructure.
    • In contrast to, for example, GiveWell's first listed charity, Malaria Consortium, which gives chemo drugs to children in order to prevent some of them from dying in the future from a disease not many in the developed world are even familiar with. (I'm sure it's all well and good; however many questions arise from the average non-EA and veteran EA alike.)
       

 

3. Will you skinny dip (at an event or on your own) and/or donate to support the project? 🌊 😊 🌊
 

-20

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iporphyry5
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I have some serious issues with the way the information here is presented which make me think that this is best shared as something other than an EA forum post. My main issues are:

  1. This announcement is in large part a promotion for the Fistula Foundation, with advertising-esque language. It would be appropriate in an advertising banner of an EA-aligned site but not on the forum, where critical discussion or direct information-sharing is the norm.
  2. It includes the phrase that Fistula Foundation is "widely regarded as one of the most effective charities in the world" (in addition to some other similar phrases). This is weaselly language which should not be used without immediate justification (e.g. "...according to X rating").
  3. In this case this is also misleading/false. I went to the EA impact assessment page for the foundation and it is actually estimated to be below the cost-effectiveness range of EA programs (while it seems to be considered a reasonable charity).

In general the language here together with the fact that the OP is affiliated with this foundation makes me update to take the fistula foundation much less seriously and to avoid donating there in the future. I would suggest for the OP to remove this post or to edit it in a way that is informative rather than pandering (e.g. something like "join me to go skinny-dipping for fistula foundation on X day. While it has a mediocre impact assessment, I like the cause and think skinny dipping would be a good way to support it while also becoming less insecure about our bodies").

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Amber Dawn7
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fwiw I disagree with this. People often 'advertize' or argue for things on the Forum - e.g. promoting some new EA project, saying 'come work for us at X org!', or arguing strongly that certain cause areas should be considered. The main difference with this post is that the language is more 'advertizing-esque' than normal - but this seems to me an aesthetic consideration. I'm not sure what would be gained by OP rewriting it with more caveats. 

Re "one of the most effective charities", OP does immediately justify this in the bullet points below - it's recommended by The Life You Can Save, and Givewell says it 'may be in the range of cost-effectiveness of our top charities'. 

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gogreatergood3
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Thank you Amber !

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gogreatergood4
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  1. I  am using the same language here, that I present this project to the media and to others with. I thought this would be beneficial. You are seeing the same thing that the general public sees. Except (I hope) with a lot of background info and links to explain my thinking.
     
  2. My language in that is not weaselly because it links to a page that shows exactly what I'm stating. It's indeed, widely regarded, as one of the most effective charities in the world. By (as the linked page shows) The Life You Can Save; CharityWatch; Great Nonprofits; GuideStar; Charity Navigator. 

    Do you have any evidence that Fistula Foundation is NOT widely regarded to be one of the most effective charities in the world? Maybe you don't think it is one of the most effective? But it's widely regarded to be, and by some prominent and well-regarded third parties.
     
  3. Your link here is exactly my same link that I put; I think you missed that. Yes I agree, that it may not be an upper elite ranked charity. And that's why I linked to the same page. However, within this link that we both posted, they do state: "We think that Fistula Foundation may be in the range of cost-effectiveness of our current top charities. However, this estimate is highly uncertain for a number of reasons." It seems to be well within a good range of high effectiveness. But if you are a stickler for elite effectiveness only, a great case can be made for that, to NOT donate to them, and fair enough. We seem in general agreement here. I'm not sure what I'm stating that's false. It did not make the GiveWell cut after they looked into them. I agree.
     

+ I am in no way whatsoever affiliated with Fistula Foundation. Why do you think so? If you are going to donate less to them in the future, based just on the wording of this post from a random person you don't know, and not based on the evidence of the work that they do, I'm not sure your reasoning on that.

+ I do hope you join me in skinny dipping on this day. I'm not sure why it's 'pandering' for me to say that. However, if you don't want to, that's all good too!

Thank you for writing back your thoughts. Helps me to get the idea of why I am getting downvotes. I do hope to get some feedback on the project itself outside of the wording, if anyone has any ! Thank you again!

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