The Animal Welfare vs Global Health debate week is turning out to be pretty one sided so far.
The wording of the question this time was chosen to be a bit more resistant to nitpicks (vs "...should be an EA priority" last time), potentially this has also resulted in it appearing more polarised one way. For me, voting strongly on the animal welfare side was not a endorsement of animal welfare being definitely more effective forever, but just that moving a chunk of money on the margin would be good seeing as it currently appears more cost effective by most counts.
So, I'm interested in hearing arguments for the other side (whichever way you voted) that you find persuasive, but not enough to fully persuade you.
Thanks Vasco, I did vote for animal welfare, so on net I agree with most of your points. On some specific things:
This seems right, and is why I support chicken corporate campaigns which tend to increase welfare. Some reasons this is not quite satisfactory:
But these are just concerns and not deal breakers.
I am sufficiently sceptical to put a low weight on the other 11 models (or at least withhold judgement until I've thought it through more). As I mentioned I'm writing a post I'm hoping to publish this week with at least one argument related to this.
The gist of that post will be: it's double counting to consider the 11 other models as separate lines of evidence, and similarly double counting to consider all the individual proxies (e.g. "anxiety-like behaviour" and "fear-like behaviour") as independent evidence within the models.
Many of the proxies (I claim most) collapse to the single factor of "does it behave as though it contains some kind of reinforcement learning system?". This itself may be predictive of sentience, because this is true of humans, but I consider this to be more like one factor, rather than many independent lines of evidence that are counted strongly under many different models.
Because of this (a lot of the proxies looking like side effects of some kind of reinforcement learning system), I would expect we will continue to see these proxies as we look at smaller and smaller animals, and this wouldn't be a big update. I would expect that if you look at a nematode worm for instance, it might show:
It might not show all of these (maybe a nematode is in fact too small, I don't know much about them), but hopefully you get the point that these look like manifestations of the same underlying thing such that observing more of them becomes weak evidence once you have seen a few.
Even if you didn't accept that they were all exactly side effects of "a reinforcement learning type system" (which seems reasonable), still I believe this idea of there being common explanatory factors for different proxies which are not necessarily sentience related should be factored in.
(RP's model does do some non-linear weighting of proxies at various points, but not exactly accounting for this thing... hopefully my longer post will address this).
On the side of neuron counts, I don't think this is particularly strong evidence either. But I see it as evidence on the side of a factor like "their brain looks structurally similar to a human's", vs the factor of "they behave somewhat similarly to a human" for which the proxies are evidence.
To me neither of these lines of evidence ("brain structural similarity" and "behavioural similarity") seems obviously deserving of more weight.
I definitely agree with this, I would only be concerned if we moved almost all funding to animal welfare.