https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/wmqLbtMMraAv5Gyqn
super dense and very well researched summary of some related things.
https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/wmqLbtMMraAv5Gyqn
super dense and very well researched summary of some related things.
Thanks!
Longtermism is the view that we have a moral obligation to make the far future better.
It is usually argued for on the basis of the following claims:
These claims are usually based on the assumption that, based on our present understanding of the world, we are justified in believing:
I think that this view initially has some appeal because we don’t normally think on these kinds of time scales. As such, if you’ve never really considered how long you think humanity will persist, it may seem pretty plausible that humanity will persist for eons.
That said, I’m quite skeptical of longtermism, and, in today’s post, I want to share three reasons why.
If I put a rock on the ground in the middle of nowhere, I can be fairly confident that it will be there the next day. If it’s quite heavy, I can reasonably expect that it will be there next year. But, no matter how heavy it is, I should have almost no confidence about where it will be a million years from now.
This is because the world is chaotic, and, as a result, the possibility space of future affairs is extraordinarily vast. Although we can reasonably expect that there will likely be some state of affairs as we go further out in time, we should also expect that we will know virtually nothing about what that state of affairs will look like.
I think this argument similarly applies to humanity’s history, and hence, also, its long-term future.
Thus far, human history has been extraordinarily chaotic. The profoundly complex interaction of social, political, environmental, economic, and circumstantial factors has determined what the present day looks like. And, if we were to travel back in time and alter starting conditions just slightly, it seems reasonable to expect that the world today would be completely different.
For instance, if Mesopotamia had been just a bit less fertile, it seems like Greece and the Roman Empire would have had very different religions, and, as a result, the world, today, would be unrecognizable. Similarly, if the distribution of power in Europe before World War I were slightly different, it seems like the current distribution of power globally would be vastly different than it is today.
Given this, it seems like we should also expect humanity’s future to be very chaotic such that slight changes in the world today create vast differences in how it looks in the future. And, if this is the case, then we should have no confidence whatsoever about what our far future will look like.
Now, even if I concede that humanity’s future will not be chaotic, it’s worth pointing out that we probably shouldn’t give any weight to our current predictions about the future given that, historically, we’ve been very bad at making predictions about the future.
I don’t think this claim needs particularly much justification given that, if we had oracle-like abilities for predicting the future, especially over long periods of time, we would know.
That said, it really is quite striking how bad people are at predicting the future. For instance, when the Founding Fathers created the US constitution, most of them didn’t expect the country to last more than fifty years. And, when the Nazis came to power, they expected to last for a millennium, calling themselves the “Thousand-Year Reich,” but, ultimately, their rule only lasted for twelve years.
If we can’t reliably make predictions about almost anything a hundred years out, I don’t think we should be able to make reliable predictions millions or billions of years out.
Longtermists often make the argument that, despite our cluelessness about the future, we should still assign at least some non-trivial probability to the chance that humanity will persist for millions of years. But, even if we do this, I don’t think it improves their argument very much since we don’t know whether future humans would create a world that we would approve of.
Currently, humans hold what we consider to be enlightened values as a result of an extraordinarily specific set of biological, environmental, and historical conditions, and, as a result of these values, we create what we consider to be a just world. Problematically, though, we don’t know what conditions future humans will live under so we don’t know how similar their values will be to ours.
For instance, as the result of globalization, digital interconnection, the establishment of human rights, and the widespread use of democracy, we’ve seen what we believe to be significant moral progress over the last century. But, if future humans don’t live under democracy, their values may shift in a direction that we would consider to be quite negative.
This is possible, but seems pretty unclear to me. cf The Gods of Straight Lines:
Three anecdotes from a blog post is not exactly strong evidence. I think these anecdotes do not make the case very well. The economy returned to trend in world war II, but would it have done the same if the Axis had won? It says the american revolution had no effect on the development of freedom and democracy, but is there proof of that? It certainly played a role in the french revolution, for example.
Overall, despite the weak case, there probably are some historical trends that exist, but this doesn't mean that the world can't be radically altered by small changes. The latter is absolutely true. There is no contradiction between the two positions.
Thanks! Tbc, I agree that there are persistence effects; I just don't think they are so strong that we can reasonably expect that slight changes in starting conditions result in a completely different world.
Yeah, to be fair, I do think that the broad trend argument is probably the strongest argument for longtermism. Like, it appears that humanity has continuously expanded and grown for the past 12,000 years. If this trend continues, then it makes sense to think that eventually we'll have the technology to start expanding into space.