Ben_West🔸

Member of Technical Staff @ METR

Bio

Non-EA interests include chess and TikTok (@benthamite). We are probably hiring: https://metr.org/hiring 

How others can help me

Feedback always appreciated; feel free to email/DM me or use this link if you prefer to be anonymous.

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AI Pause Debate Week
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Thanks for writing this, Alene!

The reason I feel excited about dedicating my life to LIC, however, is because I believe we will win

Is there something you could share about why you think this? E.g. have analogous projects succeeded before, have the previous cases had judgments indicating that the case would succeed on appeal, etc.?

  1. OP Grantees
  2. EA Funds
  3. I don't think MCF has a database (maybe @Joey 🔸 knows?)  but this post and this post list their grants
  1. Yes, thank you, I understand that weighting by budget results in the phenomenon you described. I didn't comment on this since it sounds like ACE is planning to change it anyway.
  2. I was referring to the  publicity listed in ACE's review. The stories appear to be about the lawsuit so I am not entirely sure what you mean by "could you provide evidence that this level of publicity was caused by LIC’s lawsuit". See e.g. CNN, Fox.
  3. To clarify: I don't care about causing burdens to Costco per se. The reason that burdens are relevant is because future companies might prefer to avoid that burden and instead change their policies. I agree it would be good to have a better model of when this would happen and would be excited for someone to make such a model!

 do you have a sense of how to interpret the differences between options? E.g. I could imagine that basically everyone always gives an answer between 5 and 6, so a difference of 5.1 and 5.9 is huge. I could also imagine that  scores are uniformly distributed between the entire range of 1-7, in which case 5.1 vs 5.9 isn't that big.

 Relatedly, I like how you included "positive action" as a comparison point but I wonder if it's worth including something which is widely agreed to be mediocre (Effective Lawnmowing?) so that we can get a sense of how bad some of the lower scores are.

Nice! My guess is that the most immediate way this data could be useful is that organizations who get funding on the basis of a "meta" theory of change (e.g. funding by OP, EAIF, MCF) get more/less funding because it turns out they are doing more/less to bring people in than expected. So maybe I would start with organizations funded by those groups, along with some other class of organizations to use as a control.

Thanks for writing this. I feel like the following is the crux of your criticism of LIC:

ACE acknowledges the lawsuit was dismissed, but still celebrates this achievement. They note that this achievement would inspire similar lawsuits. Would it be good to inspire more lawsuits that cost $200,000 and are dismissed?

You state this as though the answer is "obviously no" but the answer feels extremely nonobvious to me. I note that you excluded the some key things when quoting ACE:

LIC’s first lawsuit, a shareholder derivative case against Costco’s executives for chicken neglect, was featured on TikTok and in multiple media outlets, including CNN Business, Fox Business, The Washington Post, and Meatingplace... We thought the achievement has strong potential for indirect impact, and it received a high amount of media attention. - ACE

The Facebook fan page still as of this writing has a post about the lawsuit pinned to the top because apparently the owner decided to boycott after learning about the cruelty.

It sounds like the Costco board also had to take official action:

In a letter dated August 15, 2023, Costco’s board stated that it had “formed a Board committee to review and investigate the demand’s allegations.” LIC’s shareholder clients then met with investigators retained by the committee. - LIC

Is it worth $200k to get a bunch of bad publicity for Costco, force the board to form a committee and hire an investigator, etc.?

I don't know, I'm pretty willing to believe that the answer is "no", but it doesn't seem obvious to me. I could pretty easily believe that the CEO of the next company they sue would to change their policies instead of having to deal with the embarrassment of asking the board to form a committee to investigate.

I agree that diversification may not make sense for most small donors! Some arguments in favor and against this position can be found in this topic, if you are interested.

 I think it would be cool if someone scraped linkedin and made some sort of diagram of talent flows like this. I imagine it could be done in a weekend and might yield interesting results.

This is great, thinks for doing it!

 I apologize if this was listed above and I missed it, but what was the specific question you asked? "How much do you like the following terms?"

Thanks for writing this! I do feel like base rates/priors are something where many of us (including me) could have done better pre-ftx crash, and I am optimistic that we have learned from this and will do better the next time.

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