One example of the evidence we’re gathering
We are working hard on a point-by-point response to Ben’s article, but wanted to provide a quick example of the sort of evidence we are preparing to share:
Her claim: “Alice claims she was sick with covid in a foreign country, with only the three Nonlinear cofounders around, but nobody in the house was willing to go out and get her vegan food, so she barely ate for 2 days.”
The truth (see screenshots below):
- There was vegan food in the house (oatmeal, quinoa, mixed nuts, prunes, peanuts, tomatoes, cereal, oranges) which we offered to cook for her.
- We did pick up vegan food for her.
Months later, after our relationship deteriorated, she went around telling many people that we starved her. She included details that depicted us in a maximally damaging light - what could be more abusive than refusing to care for a sick girl, alone in a foreign country? And if someone told you that, you’d probably believe them, because who would make something like that up?
Evidence
- The screenshots below show Kat offering Alice the vegan food in the house (oatmeal, quinoa, cereal, etc), on the first day she was sick. Then, when she wasn’t interested in us bringing/preparing those, I told her to ask Drew to go pick up food, and Drew said yes.
- See more screenshots here of Drew’s conversations with her, trying to find food for her, and saying that they could go to any restaurant of her choice within a 12 minute drive and pick stuff up for her. She then says it's alright because I went out and got her mashed potatoes. The next day, when she's still sick, Drew gets her a vegan burger.
- Of note, you could make the claim that Emerson and Drew's preference for restaurant (which is their office for the rest of the day, because they work out of restaurants) should have been ignored in favor of our sick friend's request to go to Burger King. (Reminder, she was just a friend at the time, and not working for us in any way). I think they certainly would have been even more generous had they done that. However, trying to get everybody's preferences met is hardly unethical. And you can see in all of the messages a consistent effort to try to help her get food, and just running into the difficulty that we were in rural Puerto Rico, where it's extremely difficult to get food like that. Which we still managed to do anyways, despite many hurdles.
I went out to get vegan food for Alice when I was sick myself. It's really hard to eat vegan in rural Puerto Rico, so I went through all of the products at the store and read through the ingredients, checking for sneaky non-vegan ingredients, like whey. The mashed potatoes were literally the only thing in the store I could find that were vegan that I thought Alice would want.
I have sympathy for Alice. She was having a bad day. She was hungry (because of her fighting with a boyfriend [not Drew] in the morning and having a light breakfast) and sick. That sucks, and I feel for her. And that’s why I tried (and succeeded) in getting her food.
I would be fine if she told people that she was hungry when she was sick, and she felt sad and stressed. Or that she was hungry but wasn’t interested in any of the food we had in the house. Or even that she wanted Burger King but Emerson and Drew wanted to go to a restaurant with a nice vibe (they work out of restaurants all day, so going to work out of a Burger King was more of an ask than would be for most people), so she had the mashed potatoes I got and cooked for her, which was not her #1 preference. But she told everybody that we didn’t get her food when we did. This made us look like uncaring people, which we are not. She even said in her texts that she felt loved and supported.
It’s important to note that Alice didn’t lie about something small and unimportant. She accused of us a deeply unethical act - the kind that most people would hear and instantly think you must be a horrible human - and was caught lying.
We believe many people in EA heard this lie and updated unfavorably towards us. A single false rumor like this can unfairly damage someone’s ability to do good, and this is just one among many she told. Also, this current version has been walked back from what we originally heard - that she hadn't eaten anything for days.
We chose this example not because it’s the most important (although it certainly paints us in a very negative and misleading light) but simply because it was the fastest claim to explain where we had extremely clear evidence without having to add a lot of context, explanation, find more evidence, etc.
We have job contracts, interview recordings, receipts, chat histories, and more, which we are working full-time on preparing.
This claim was a few sentences in Ben’s article but took us hours to refute because we had to track down all of the conversations, make them readable, add context, anonymize people, check our facts, and write up an explanation that was rigorous and clear. Ben’s article is over 10,000 words and we’re working as fast as we can to respond to every point he made.
Again, we are not asking for the community to believe us unconditionally. We want to show everybody all of the evidence and also take responsibility for the mistakes we made.
We’re just asking that you not overupdate on hearing just one side, and keep an open mind for the evidence we’ll be sharing as soon as we can.
Leaving aside for a moment the much bigger question of how you end up living overseas with someone when you can't work out whether they are an employee or not and then suggesting they act as a drug mule (very happy to be corrected on any of those points, these seem unaddressed to date).
Having read the linked texts in the google doc I am extremely confused how anyone would post them thinking they were exculpatory for the Nonlinear team?
A sick person explains (a) they are starving, (b) don't have any food, (c) can't get delivery and (d) are home w presumed C-19.
They ask clearly and repeatedly for a vegan burger and fries from burger king. Their request is painfully clear.
Over the course of 2 hours and 32 mins (based on time stamps) Emerson and Drew manage to:
i) not do that,
ii) choose a restaurant with no consideration for whether there is any vegan food
iii) tell them they should not go outside to find food themselves
iv) manage to eventually find a side salad, and
v) all of this takes a lot of asking on the sick person's behalf.
And this is meant to show how reasonable the Nonlinear team are? They seem to have done far less than the minimum.
My main takeaway, besides sadness at Alice's experience in that moment, is that we really need to improve EA governance. All power to the Nonlinear team if they want to change the world with a nontraditional 'family' dynamic but we can't be granting EA funds to these orgs with such terrible governance or encouraging early career professionals to work there.
Apologies if this isn't in line with the forum rules and norms, first time poster, driven by the visceral response of reading those texts.
Priors: Had met Kat at EAG events, found her to be impressive and really likable. Don't believe I know anyone else.
The claim in the post was “Alice claims she was sick with covid in a foreign country, with only the three Nonlinear cofounders around, but nobody in the house was willing to go out and get her vegan food, so she barely ate for 2 days.”. (Bolding added)
If you look at the chat messages, you’ll see we have screenshots demonstrating that:
1. There was vegan food in the house, which we offered her.
2. I personally went out, while I was sick myself, to buy vegan food for her (mashed potatoes) and cooked it for her and brought it to her.
I would be fine if she... (read more)