We need 40,000h or maybe even 20,000h

Thank you so much! I didn't know of HIP, I'll definitely try it out.

Wow, what a great idea with the group, I would love that. I'm a user experience designer, more of a generalist due to several circumstances. I just found out there is a EA Creatives and Communicators Slack  - that's a start but I'm not a content creator, artist, or communicator, I'm much deeper in corporate IT and I'm aiming at hi-tech companies for a number of reasons. If there would be any UX researchers/designers/writers interested in climbing the ladder of hi-tech IT I would be unspeakably happy to join it!

Hi Devon, it's great that you had time to respond. I love this initiative! I'll dive into HIP as soon as I finish my responses. 

In terms of constraints - salary level is definitely one of the factors, but not the only one. I can move to the moon and back if needed for the right offer, that's how mobile I can be. I kind of developed a framework for what I expect from my next job, but companies' expectations are another story. When you have job, volunteer, have personal duties and obligations it's hard to even complete the resume, and not to mention career strategy. 

I'll ping you in a moment! Thank you for offering that.

Oh my, thank you so much for your voice, you've outlined the problem very nicely! 

Yes, exactly. I volunteer in my local/country  - EA PL - within my field of expertise which is UX design. I redesigned our website, and I help with user or even marketing research - but honestly - I can do so much more good with my money donation and climbing the ladder in my profession. I just feel it in my bones - as un-scientifically as it sounds. I even came to the point where I ask myself questions like "Do I volunteer there to actually make any impact, or is it just for me feeling good about doing something". And usually I don't like the answer that pops in my head, because I don't want to abandon my community. But I have only one life, and I want to make the best of it. 

So If I can't/wont change a career I'm happy to accept ETG as my only option, but how to increase impact there? There are so many possible steps, and I have no one to brainstorm about it. 

I'm writing "me, me, me" all the time, and the struggle is real, but honestly, I came here to discuss the realm of neglected mature EA's. Because if they, if we don't fit into any of high impact jobs, there are no available strategies for us, and no one-fit-all solution most likely. And that leaves us idle, while we could absolutley rock in donations and brining EA to so many different corners of the world.

We're in touch! :)

OK, me back! As for the part about 80k objectives, it's hard for me to tell. I haven't done enough research to have an opinion on that matter. But I guess, influencing anyone with EA values gives a lot of positive returns.
 

"what high-impact roles could be a great fit for you" 

- That's the thing, I don't fit any of them. I'm a ux/ui designer (I'll post my links on the bottom) and after 2 years of (let's call it) research I realized two things:

1. In those few companies or orgs that ever posted offers for uxd, UX is not necessarily as impactful or even important. It just needs to be as good as to not let "things fall apart". So, not much impact on the cause area there.
2. Earning to give makes much more sense. I can still do what I love and am good at, but it comes with this pressure to overexcell myself to give more in near future. 

In regards to mentoring others, that's complicated too. How can I advise others if I can't even move on with my own goals that I defined so clearly for myself? That's rhetorical of course. I struggle with impostor syndrome a lot and I've been looking for a job more actively since November (I want to move up and upskill). Being declined over and over again doesn't help with the syndrome. But I'm not saying "no", only "not now".

I've done some brainstorming with senior IT people, but I'm not very good at cold emailing them, so I haven't had as many insights as I wish to. 

EAG/x - I am signing up for 5 events this year, this is a great way of meeting people smarter than me and in every age!

Thank you a lot @calebp!

Links: https://www.linkedin.com/in/martynatomaszewska/ - feel free to connect.
https://eahub.org/profile/martyna/ - let me know if it's available, if not I'll make it public.

Thank you so much for that, I'll get back with my response in a few h if you don't mind.

Thanks for your support Bingo, this sounds great!

I hear you. We all struggle. Young people have it so much harder to enter the job market after graduation., it makes sense to me still, 80k makes sense. But it just shouldn't stop there.

I have the same observations for A) and B). I'm a self-taught UX designer, my masters only loosely correspond to what I do. It's intimidating to see offers for senior positions asking for 7-8 years of experience in the field, while UX studies have only begun to appear in Unis in Poland like maybe a decade ago... 

That's a valid point and as my comment also had the offer of a private conversation I will try to add a few thoughts here. Generally, if someone asks me about EA career advice when mid-career I would suggest following:

• Look at the 80K content and especially the 8-week career course. I think it can be a misconception that this is only for students, early-career people or if you want to completely change your career path. For me, it was very helpful and there are several places that discuss different options depending on prior experience and seniority. Thinking about what a fulfilling career looks like and doing cause prioritization is something that can be helpful for anyone.
• Apply for a 80K 1:1 call when you're ready. I had one with Habiba and she was able to connect me to other people in their mid-career that recently were hired or contracted by EA orgs. Talking to them helped me a lot to see that there are many opportunities to help organisations to have an impact and very different paths to them.
• Take your time: "If you can increase the impact of your career by just 1%, it would be worth spending up to 800 hours learning how to do that.^[1]" by 80K can be translated to 400 or 200 hours for shorter careers that is still a lot of time. 
• Try things out. I keep coming back to the book Designing Your Life ^[2], especially the tipps around
  • Tracking the amounts of engagement and energy different activities bring in order to assess better what kinds of work could energize you.
  • Planning and trying out smaller prototypes in order to find out what is a good fit. For this was volunteering
• Get some slack: If you don't have the time in your life to think about these topics and try things out then I would recommend trying to free up time by:
  • Reducing your job hours if possible (perhaps there is a way to reduce your donations or spending for some time to only work 4 days/week?)
  • Reducing other activities for some time or using vacation
  • Temporarily moving to a place where you spend less and take a remote job
  • Setting up a plan to free up time after you are able to (eg when the children reach a certain age, when you have a certain amount saved up etc.)
• If this all seems too much at the moment then give yourself some slack. Rushing into a new job that does not suit you is not only bad for you but also for the organisation hiring you. For me it took 6 years from reading about EA to starting to volunteer and I had to overcome many misconceptions around the demandingness of EA and might have dropped out if it wasn't for meeting people and seeing that everyone is human and many people struggle with the question how much they should dedicate of their lives to doing good.
• For me it was and is very important to meet people and to see how big and diverse on many lines the movement is. I can't recommend enough to apply for EAG and EAGx conferences and to talk to many people. Especially the mid- and late-career speedmeetings at EAG London were very inspiring.
• The last point brings me back to the private conversations: As good as communicating on the forum is, I would recommend doing these. I anybody wants to have a chat, please send me a message, I would be happy to take a call.

1. ^{^}

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2. ^{^}

   80K career advisor Michelle Hutchinson also found it useful as I found in this comment

You have a valid point, but I guess from my subjective standpoint, it's much less intimidating to discuss my situation in private rather than in public. I started a general thread and now it would turn into self-help off-topic. Already did a little, bit embarrassing to me.

On the other hand, I think it's totally reasonable to continue a discussion of supporting mid/senior EA's with career choices here. Because one-on-ones can help one person. But an actual initiative would help many.

Feel free to PM me too. I'll be happy to chat, brainstorm, share findings from my discussions too. Whatever you might find useful.

I keep on thinking about your comment today. Any chance you could outline your situation, struggle or view on the subject of 40kh? It could actually add a lot of value to hear the perspective or specific situation from others.

I outlined mine in one of the first responses. At first I though it's meaningless in general topic discussion, but now I think that those specific circumstances are making the case.

Please share if you will.

Adjusted. Thank you!

Thank you so much! I'll reach out to Lotte next week, seems like we will have a lot to discuss!

Human-robot-interaction is something I never considered, but it sounds very interesting. HMI is basically the ground for my work, but it is applied very widely, from physical design (elevators, printers, cars) to SW design, and I'm in the second sector atm. But boy, do I dream to get to the first one. 

Do you know of any companies that are hiring HRI designers?

Hi Ian, thank you a lot. I would be very curious to learn from our experience. I heard of the improving institutional decision-making concept, you are right it might be very beneficial for people with similar situations to mine. I'll look into it, and I'll PM you in a moment!

I hear you! This is a far larger group of EA's than I initially thought. Encouraging and worrying at the same time. Worrying because of possibly missed potential.

I wrote some context in this reply and in a few others, but in general:

• I'm a User Experience Designer
• 42 this year
• Fully mobile, able to relocate anywhere in the world

I made some very bad decisions in the past in regards to my career, because I never had the smallest support or anyone as a mentor. Took a flat mortgage. Struggle to survive 2008 depression in Poland - companies were either fireing or bankrupting and I end up working for 6 months for free until I was let go. Got into money problems with a mortgage and spiking inflation. Migrated to the Czech Republic. Followed the money to get rid of financial dependencies and never be unemployed or hungry again. Paid off the mortgage, get rid of the flat, joined EA, started to rethink my career. Started to build up savings that I'm learning to invest and multiply. Signed up for GWWC pledge.

Because I followed the money mainly, I end up in companies that do not understand the value of design, and applying for the ones that do is really hard. I invest in my growth privately, I have some plan, ideas, and goals, but I never know if I'm betting on the right card to get me where I want to be.

In terms of EA, unless something really dramatic will happen to push me off, I plan to donate the majority of my life savings. I'm ok with ETG/ETS by now, it actually gives me the freedom to choose a career path unrelated to EA but corresponding with my interests.

That's my life in a pill!