Angelina Li

Data Analyst @ Centre for Effective Altruism
1418 karmaJoined Working (0-5 years)Berkeley, CA, USA


Hiya! I work on data stuff at CEA. I used to be the content lead on the EA Global team at CEA, and before that I did economic consulting. Here's an old website I might update at some point.

Think I'm making a mistake? Want to give me feedback? Here's my admonymous. You can also give feedback for me directly to my manager, Oscar Howie.


Unrelated — I really like this comment + this other comment of yours as good examples of: "I notice the disagreement you are having is about an empirical and easily testable question, let me spend 5 min to grab the nearest data to test this." (I really admire / value this virtue <3 )

Thanks, I found this a helpful nudge, and wouldn't have known about this otherwise :)

By the way, I ended up buying a copy of Sexual Citizens because of this comment. I found it super interesting (if sad :( ), thanks for the rec!

...I'm a bit embarrassed that it took me fully until the section "anyone who has ever appeared on Love Island or The Apprentice" to realize that this might be satire :P (having opened this a few days post 4/1 lol)

This is interesting, thanks for sharing! :)

I was browsing your BOTEC and wonder if I've found a bug or two in sheet 3 (but it's possible I'm not understanding something about your methodology, I only took a quick look / haven't read this post in detail).

On sheet 3, I think the weights are meant to basically represent how much money is being spent in each org + category, relative to the smallest org you look at? (W. M. Keck Foundation).

But it looks like you're not dividing the total weight per org by the number of focus areas that org has. So i.e. here I think here the weights for Wellcome > AMR should be =round(223.45 / 5), since you list 5 focus areas for Wellcome on sheet 1. I might be misunderstanding something here (only took a cursory check).

Also it looks like you're missing the Therapeutics category for Wellcome + Lab Readiness for Rockefeller, I think? (Maybe some others too). 

I tried fixing this by making some changes (highlighted in green) here, mostly in sheet 3 (starting col L) and a bit in sheet 1. Happy to give you edit access if you request it.

Also sorry if this is too nitpicky, I just like auditing spreadsheets :) Thanks for publishing this!

Nice. Thanks for an incredibly prompt and thorough response!

But speaking for myself, I think the ideas-based outcomes are pretty inflated, and the behavioral outcomes are probably noisy rather than biased, so I believe our overall null on behavioral outcomes.

That makes sense to me. It is kind of interesting to me that the zeitgeist programs you mention are so different in terms of intervention size (if I'm understanding correctly, Safe Dates involved a 10 session curriculum, but the Men's Program involved a single session with a short video?), but neither seem effective at behavior reduction!

for instance, male subjects watch a video on sexual harassment and then teach a female confederate how to golf, while a researcher watches through a one-way mirror and codes how often the subject touches the confederate and how sexually harassing those touches were.

wow... oof...

Thank you for this summary + for conducting this research!

Super interesting, thanks for sharing! I have some possibly dumb questions about the finding that these programs don't change behaviors:

  • How confident are you that you're not seeing changes in behavior because of a lack of effect, vs small sample size / people lying in the data / other issues?
  • When you say these studies found no effect on "behaviors", how were these measured generally speaking? (Self report, or something else?)

No pressure to respond, reading this made me curious about some other stuff:

  • I'm curious how you've updated via this project re: your own fit for starting a charity in this space? Do you have plans to continue trying your hand at starting charities?
  • Separately, if you're looking for next project ideas, I'm extremely not an animal welfare expert, but I'd be quite interested for someone to look into the shrimp paste market. I have no useful advice on who should do what in this space though, and probably Ren's opinions are much better than mine on this.
  • Please correct me if this is mistaken, it sounds like the cofounder match between you two was: Ren as the research-y wing / domain expert, and you as maybe the more execute-y wing / person with more time and keenness to make this happen (sounds like this was part time for Ren, unsure if this was a part time level project for you?). Sorry if those impressions are wrong! If they are ~correct, I'm curious how well that structure worked for you!
  • I'm curious if you have reflections on the strategy of attempting to "blend into industry". When I hear animal advocates talk about this kind of strategy, it makes me feel slightly uneasy, because it seems to maybe imply some level of deceptiveness. I'm tempted to hold out that uneasy feeling, weigh that against the truly immense suffering at stakes, and conclude that this is a feature of the world being bad and having to make sad tradeoffs. (And I worry this whole worry is silly or naive in the face of so much suffering.) But then a voice in my head gets a bit worried about naive utilitarian tradeoffs and sacrificing integrity. But maybe the high integrity move here is to find products that really are positive sum for farmers, and choose to emphasize the parts that you genuinely believe are beneficial. I don't know! Would be curious for your thoughts :)
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