Edit from 2022: Consider checking the Forum user manual if you're not sure if something you're looking for might already be possible. 

 

Hello, Forum!

This is Aaron and JP of the EA Forum team. 

We spend a lot of time working on the Forum, and we’d like to hear your ideas for making it better. These can be new features or other kinds of requests.

Even if you don’t have suggestions of your own, consider upvoting ideas you like from the comments. That will have nonzero influence on the features we prioritize (though we also take many other factors into account).

If you’d rather make a suggestion privately, get in touch with us through this page.

Edit April 2022: This thread is still very live as you can see by the continual influx of suggestions. We have now synced our asana project with our public Github issues list, so you can see our recorded tasks there.[1] I'd still recommend suggesting features here so that other users can see and discuss them. — JP

  1. ^

    Note: there's a delay between when we write tasks down and when they get triaged into a state that gets synced with Github.

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Something which has come up a few times, and recently a lot in the context of Debate Week (and the reaction to Leif's post) is things getting downvoted quickly and being removed from the Front Page, which drastically drops the likelihood of engagement.[1]

So a potential suggestion for the Frontpage might be:

  • Hide the vote score of all new posts if the absolute score of the post is below some threshold (I'll use 20 as an example)
    • If a post hits -20, it drops off the front page
    • After a post hits 20+, it's karma score is permanently revealed
    • Galaxy-brain version i
... (read more)
2
Jason
I think number and weight of upvotes (not netted against downvotes) is an important criterion here, especially when it comes to the risk of controversial material getting buried before most users have a chance to see it. I think this may be practically much the same as what you're suggesting. * If something has a good number of upvotes and downvotes, my assumption is that we ideally want to present that content to the user and let them make their own decision on whether it is worth reading / engaging with. In other words, conditioned on there being a critical mass of upvotes, the presence of the downvotes doesn't update the probability of "this is worth showing to other users and letting them make their own decision" very much for me. * If something has had enough impressions on the front page and hasn't gotten much engagement, then the odds of future users wanting to engage with it seems fairly low.

As a group organizer, I want to know how many people are following our city group on the forum and find out when a new person starts following it. E.g., how many people are following our city group on the forum now compared to before a recent EAGx event?

As a group organizer, it might be nice to be able to DM people who follow our local group, though this may have privacy implications I have not thought through.

2
Sarah Cheng
I appreciate this suggestion, and the really helpful context! I'll add it to our backlog. The Groups features of the site haven't gotten any love in a while and I hope we can circle back to them soon.
1
Kevin Ulug
The "free mailing list for new events" aspect of following a city group (depending on your notification settings) could be pretty useful. I wonder if we could make posts in a city group and have that be emailed to group followers (depending on settings), basically as a mailing list? I don't currently have something like a mailing list. Our group has an increasing number of platforms - a mailing list would be one more ... signing up to the forum and following the group is a bit more work than signing up for than a mailing list but would save me one additional platform and potentially a monthly fee, etc.
1
Kevin Ulug
Thank you very much!

I think the EA Forum software does a poor job at communicating the license terms of forum posts. (For context, all new forum content published on or after 1 December 2022 has been licensed under Creative Commons Attribution 4.0.)

The current license statement is buried in the forum terms of use which can be reached from the "How to use the Forum" page in the navigation sidebar, so many readers may be unaware of the license terms if they have not registered on the forum and clicked through the license agreement. By contrast, many sites that use CC licenses, ... (read more)

2
Eevee🔹
Somewhat relatedly, the forum terms of use addendum currently does not mention the ForumMagnum software, which is GPL-v3. CEA itself might have obligations under the GPL to other contributors to the forum software (i.e. anyone who contributed to it and was not a CEA employee), like informing forum users of the terms and conditions of the GPL and not imposing further restrictions on them. I suggest looking into this to see if the EA Forum terms of service need to be modified in order to comply with the GPL. [edit: reworded to avoid being interpreted as legal advice]

Hi JP,

Nice that user interests are now visible on the profile page. I think it would be good if they were sorted alphabetically.

I would like to suggest a rule/norm that people or orgs should not post the same article they are ready posted multiple times over the course of a few months, especially if there was already discussion in the comments the first time, unless they have significantly new points to make.

Hi JP,

It would be nice to have the possibility of filtering the posts of a user by a given tag. As of now, it is not possible.

4
JP Addison🔸
You can do this on the search page. (I agree it would be better for that option to appear on the user page filtering — it's a natural thing to want to look for.)

Hi JP,

I think it would be nice to have the possibility of filtering content by user. As of now it is not possible.

My use case was trying to find something I said.

4
JP Addison🔸
I believe it should work if you search "foobar Vasco Grilo"
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Thanks! That restricts the search to posts and comments from me, but then there are no results if I add a key word (e.g. "foobar Vasco Grilo 4.64").

Hi JP,

I imported this Doc to the EA Forum editor, and noted the 2nd to 4th bullets of the section "Cost-effectiveness of the Climate Change Fund" were not imported.

2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Relatedly, I imported this Doc to the EA Forum editor, and noted the figures in the section "Cumulative distribution functions (CDFs)" were not imported.
3
Will Howard🔹
Hi Vasco, both of these bugs should be fixed now :)
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Thanks, Will! Relatedly, I noted the importation makes the text in tables go from aligned to the centre in docs to aligned to the left/right on the EA Forum editor.
3
Will Howard🔹
Unfortunately we don't support aligning text to the centre/right in our editor, so we won't be able to fix this any time soon. Sorry about that. Are you sure the text was aligned to the right? I wouldn't expect that to be possible
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Here is an example with text in a table aligned to the left (select all text -> cell properties -> table cell text alignement). StatisticAnnual epidemic/pandemic deaths as a fraction of the global populationMean0.236 %Minimum05th percentile1.19*10^-610th percentile3.60*10^-6Median0.0276 %90th percentile0.414 %95th percentile0.684 %Maximum10.3 %
3
Will Howard🔹
Ah thanks, I didn't know we had that feature. In that case we should be able to fix this when importing, I'll get back to you when it's done

Hi JP,

This comment and my personal experience (example) made me wonder whether it would be nice to have an option to hide the karma in comments or posts of others or ourselves.

4
JP Addison🔸
We do actually have a way to hide the karma for everyone on the comments of your own posts. It's an experiment we decided to create to see if it would help certain discussions feel less like a gladiatorial arena. It's intentionally pretty hidden right now, and might not work well after multiple years of not being used. To enable it: 1. You must have 2,000 karma 2. You first need to opt in to the feature on your account settings 3. Then you need to enable it on a new post If you do this, consider reaching out to us to ensure it isn't completely broken.
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Cool! I have now opted in to the feature, and plan to test it when I create another post. Hiding karma would be specially relevant for people with low karma, who are new to the forum? I assume it can be disabled later one (in the post editor moderation options)?
4
JP Addison🔸
At the time we wrote the feature, we wanted to experiment with it for only some posts, and generally we often roll(ed) out features to power users first. Rather than having someone new to the site who just happened to discover it but wouldn't be able to model the costs/benefits of turning on the feature. No, actually. On the basis that karma does actually contribute a lot to the way people interact with comments, we wanted to avoid changing the system midway through a thread. (TBC this really was a long time ago and I don't necessarily endorse the decisions that past!me made here.)
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
I have published a post without karma visibility in the comments, and everything seems to be working fine. I thought the karma would only become invisible to me, but I see now it becomes invisible for everyone, so I can see why you implemented the feature such that one could not turn the visibility back on. To clarify, my suggestion was about making karma invisible to the person activating the feature, in the same way that one can currently activate a feature to hide the names of users. In this case, I think it would make sense to make the karma invisible in all posts (not just in the ones published by the user activating the feature), and for it to be possible to turn on/off the feature whenever.
4
JP Addison🔸
Again without defending past!me's decision, we deliberate thought it would be a bad idea to have some of the participants able to see karma and some unable to. Karma is an important part of the social landscape that some people would be missing.
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
I see, although I think one can argue it should not be possible to hide users' names based on the same argument.
4
JP Addison🔸
If I were defending my past decision, I'd say that you'd probably hover over the usernames after reading and before you reply.
4
Vasco Grilo🔸
Fair. I was not clear above, but, by "in the same way that one can currently activate a feature to hide the names of users", I meant that karma could be invisible by defaul if the feature is activated, but then show up once one hovers over the karma placeholder.
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JP Addison🔸
Ah, I see. I don't hate that at all.
2
JP Addison🔸
A thought I want to leave for posterity and because I just linked this conversation to someone: I really would like the comment hiding to also hide agree/disagree votes. I'm nervous about people feeling more pressure to disagree-vote in this world. Also while I'm at it I should note that, as evidence of the feature being under-baked: someone reported it to me as a bug 😅

Could we have a no-frontpage tag that authors can apply that would (e.g.) give -99999 karma adjustment to a post for frontpage purposes?

I think breaking up larger posts into appendices or parts (cf. the new alcoholism sequence) can be helpful but also could clog the frontpage.

2
JP Addison🔸
I believe what you're looking for is the personal blog distinction. Authors can decide that they want to post their writing on the Forum, but not submit it to the frontpage. Examples might be a post that is political, or if someone is dumping a larger number of posts. Devin actually did this, so you'll notice that the posts you mentioned are in the personal blog category. If you're seeing them on the frontpage, then my guess is you've customized your feed.
2
Jason
Ah yes, I think I changed a setting because I didn't like that the mod team was flagging stuff as personal blog (during the Bostrom affair, was it?) that I didn't think met the standard for that treatment. So I guess seeing Devin's appendices on my frontpage is the price I pay for opting out of mod-directed personal blog designations!

Inspired by an EA Melbourne planning event yesterday, we came up with concept of having a subtle but visible visual tag for posts/replies by folks who are in the same city as you (opt in option in your profile), to help build more in-person community and potential collaboration.
 

4
JP Addison🔸
This is a really nice idea, thanks!

Hi JP,

Minor. In the messages' page, the screen is currently broken down into 2, with my past conversations on the left, and the one I am focussing on on the right. I would rather have an option to expand the screen on the right such that I do not see the conversations pane on the left, or have an option to hide the conversations pane on the left.

Expose "voting tribes" in the comments.

We could run a similar algorithm to X's Community Notes. Then, on contentious topics, we could easily see the main axis of disagreement. We could also have a comment sorting option, that upranks those upvoted by people from both sides of the disagreement.

See this thread for discussion and corresponding post for algorithm description.

I have a feature removal suggestion.

Can the notification menu please go back to being like LW?

The LW version (which EA Forum used to have too) is more compact, which gives a better overview. I also prefer when karma and notifications are separate.  I don't want to see karma updates in my notification dropdown.

I think having a separate section for community posts has greatly improved my experience of the forum. However I think there are still quite a lot of posts that stay on the front page for a long time for similar reasons to why community posts did - because they '[interest] everyone at least a little bit' and/or are 'accessible to everyone, or on topics where everyone has an opinion'

I want to see posts that do things like present the results of significant work get more attention, and to a lesser extent posts that are topical - i.e. announcements abo... (read more)

Something that came to mind after reading recent posts by Ulrik and Sarah, along with the reaction to them - Can we do better at distinguishing downvotes and disagreevotes?

In my mind, I view downvotes as saying:

  • This content violates Forum norms/content policies
  • This content does not belong on the Forum
  • I want to see less of this content on the Forum
  • The community values this content (specifically or in general) too highly

Whereas disagreevotes are saying:

  • There are particular claims in the piece which are wrong
  • The argument of the post may be valid, but it does not hold
  • The author is giving their opinion/experience, and this does not match mine

I think my concern is that the first two bullet points under 'downvotes' seem very different from the bottom two.[1] It feels, to me, that we rarely see posts that are highly upvoted but also have significant disagreevotes.

So I don't have a solution for this apart from some half-baked ideas, but wonder what the Forum team's perspective was?

  1. ^

    I think in part I'm questioning whether the last two are valid uses of the downvote button.

Hi JP,

I think it would be good if there was an option to make the interests (in terms of EA Forum tags) in one's own profile visible, as this could be an easy way to see the topics someone is into.

I quite like the summary bot, and think it would often be useful (particularly for posts without author-written summaries) to read the summary first before deciding to read the whole post. Of course, it is easy to scroll all the way down, read the summary, and then decide whether to read the post. But humans are lazy and to make the user experience as frictionless as possible, how about the AI-written summary goes at the top, above the post? Not everyone would like this, so I think there should be an option for each user whether they want the summary at th... (read more)

Hi JP,

I wonder whether it would be good to have a pop-up showing up each time one strongly downvoted a post or comment, saying something like, "Consider explaining what could be improved". If this was implemented, I also think there should be a way of disabling the pop-up in the settings.

Hi JP,

I have noted EA Forum's GitHub repository has 666 issues and 102 pull requests. I would be curious to know how you are prioritising what to develop.

6
JP Addison🔸
Some good kabbalistic significance to our issue tracker, but I'm not sure how. First, a note: I have heard recommendations to try to lower the number of issues. I've never understood it except as a way to pretend like you don't have bugs. For sure some of those issues are stale and out of date, but quite a few are probably live but ultimately very edge-case and unimportant bugs, or feature requests we probably won't get to but could be good. I don't think it's a good use of time to prune it, and most of the approaches I've seen companies take is to auto-close old bugs, which strikes me as disingenuous. In any case, we have a fairly normal process of setting OKRs for our larger projects, and tiny features / bugfixes get triaged into a backlog that we look at when planning our weekly sprints. The triage process done in our asana and is intentionally not visible publicly so we can feel comfortable marking something as low priority without worrying about needing to argue about it.

Hi JP,

I have just accidentaly published one post. It was not a big deal, as I moved it to drafts, and then published it again 45 min later. Have you considered having a pop-up saying "Are you sure you want to publish?" after one clicks on the button "Publish"? Relatedly, if one moves a published post to the drafts, and then publishes it again, what determines its positition in the front page is:

  • The date the post was 1st published? I guess so.
  • The date the post was last published? I think this would be too spammy.
  • The time for which the post has been publicly accessible? If yes, there would be no need for the pop-up I mentioned above.
4
JP Addison🔸
Thanks for the report. We currently do the second, which isn't ideal to be sure. If someone redrafts and republishes after a post has been up for a while, an admin will have to adjust the published date manually. This happens surprisingly infrequently relative to what I might've expected, so we haven't prioritized improving that.

Hi JP, 

In recent days I've come to think I would appreciate being able to sort the posts I have saved for later (by date posted, time to read, karma, tags, etc). Is this possible?

Thanks!

2
JP Addison🔸
No, sorry. I appreciate the question though, and I'll record a ticket about it.

Hi JP,

I think it would be nice to have an option to subscribe to sequences, such that one can be notified of new posts.

6
Sarah Cheng
You can now subscribe to be notified when posts are added to a sequence. Hope this is helpful, and let me know if you run into any issues!
2
Vasco Grilo🔸
Thanks for the update, Sarah!
4
JP Addison🔸
Definitely. I agree, and so do a few other users. We have an open ticket on it.

Hi JP,

Have you though about adding an option to filter the comments made by a given user by karma? Checking the comments from someone may be a good way of getting a better understanding about their worldview, and sorting them by karma would facilitate this process.

What would people think of adding SummaryBot functionality to some very long comments? The emergence of a new HLI/SM thread reminds me that some comments are post-length and post-complexity contributions; many of them would benefit from a summary. That can be particularly valuable where the original poster and commenter start a dialogue, with long replies to each other's comments. Those threads can take a significant time commitment to get through!

Unsure what the cutoff should be to trigger a comment summary -- maybe 500-600 words?

Has anyone ever considered adding an is-an-alt-account flag to accounts, and requiring alts to be declared? When an alt account was declared, it could either be -- at the creator's option -- blocked from voting altogether, or confidentially linked to the person's main account such that double-voting could easily be identified.

I'm wondering if this could help address the multiple-account voting situations. After a transition period in which every active account would be required to declare alt/non-alt status, using two non-alt accounts itself would establis... (read more)

2
JP Addison🔸
We've discussed something like this, I'm generally in favor, subject to opportunity cost.

If you press a footnote link in a post and the footnote is hidden in the 'View more footnotes' collapsable list the page scrolls to a footnote you can't see. I found it confusing until I realised you have to press 'view more footnotes' to expand them. It would be good if it opened automatically when you follow a footnote link

Hi. I started drafting a reply but had to stop and now a week later I cannot find where I was drafting it. I would love to be able to see all the places where I have draft comments/replies autosaved. Thank you! 

2
Lorenzo Buonanno🔸
This is probably not useful anymore, but on Chrome you can open the browser development tools (Right click + "inspect element", or "ctrl+shift+I"), go to the "Application" tab, and in the Storage -> Local storage section you can see all your drafts. (The process on other browsers to access local storage is similar)  

April fools' day request:

I was reading the openai blog post "learning to summarize with human feedback" from the AI Safety Fundamentals course (https://openai.com/research/learning-to-summarize-with-human-feedback), especially the intriguing bit at the end about how if they try to fully optimize the model for maximum reward, they actually overfit and get lower-quality responses.

My ill-advised request is that I would just LOVE to see the EA Forum's "summaryBot" go similarly haywire for a day and start summarizing every post in the same repetitive / aggressi... (read more)

I have said this before but, I do feel like LW and the EA Forum should have ways to quickly input probability distributions to help prevent double illusion of transparency-type dynamics and help people be more concrete without making the text hard to follow.

One format that I like is people can mouse of a word and there will be a little tool tip pop-up thing with prob distribution. The UI for making it could be a cross between making a hyperlink and the metaculus prob distribution mixture creator.

2
JP Addison🔸
Thanks for this, I do think we should have something along this direction.

Organisation Badges/Tags next to author names on posts/comments

(sent through Intercom before I remembered that this existed)

I generally dislike when people write posts from their organisation - I think that it's hard to know who exactly I'm talking to, it's difficult to know what messages are from the author vs from the org, and it generally feels a bit intimidating to talk to 'Givedirectly' as opposed to Sally who works at Givedireclty.

I do understand the desire for organisations to say things as the org - maybe when someone posts in a professional capaci... (read more)

4
JP Addison🔸
For posts, I feel like the solution is to add the organization as a coauthor. It's what rethink does, for example. I agree we could probably go further in the direction of discouraging org accounts from being the only author.
2
calebp
Agree that posts as a coauthor works well and doesn't require implementing any new features. Maybe someone should write a frontage post discussing this at some point and that would be enough?

Hi JP,

When I copy-paste a published-to-web Doc to the EA Forum editor, all bullet points are converted to 1st level bullet points, so I typically have to manually update all higher than 1 order bullets. If I copy-past the Doc (instead of its published-to-web version), the formatting of the bullets is maintained, but then I lose all the footnotes. It would be nice if both bullets formating and footnotes were maintained!

Unclear: arguably deleted comments should not provide positive karma (e.g. this user, who has deleted almost all of her comments).

When I tried publishing a draft of this post with the cross-post to LW option, it didn't work, saying something about being able to cross-post to LW. (I instead posted directly to LW and used to the option cross-post to EA Forum.)

Hi,

Michael Aird suggested some time ago:

getting the EA Forum - and maybe other sites - to have a clearly visible option for putting a badge there if one is a GWWC member

I do not think this ended up being implemented, but it sounds like a good idea. Currently, it is already possible to say in the user profile whether one has attended EA virtual programs, and conferences.

4
JP Addison🔸
Leaving this here

In comment threads, I often am much more interested in the repeated back-and-forth between the two primary interlocutors than interjections from third parties. Would it be possible to somehow prioritize replies from the author of the grandparent to promote this 'conversation' style reading?

On the wiki:

It seems like 'topics' are trying to serve at least two purposes: linking to wiki articles with info to orient people, and classifying/tagging forum posts. These purposes don't need to be so tied together as they currently are.

One could want to have e.g. 3 classification labels to help subdivide a topic (I think we currently have 'AI safety', 'AI risks', and 'AI alignment'), but that seems like a bad reason to write 3 separate similar articles, which duplicates effort in cases where the topics have a lot of overlap.

A lot of writing time could be saved if tags and wiki articles were split out such that closely related tags could point to the same wiki article.

Can my profile karma total be two numbers, one for community and one for other stuff? I don't want a reader to think my actual work is valuable to people in proportion to my EA Forum karma, as far as I can tell I think 3-5x my karma is community sourced compared to my object-level posts. People should look at my profile as "this guy procrastinates through PVP on social media like everyone else, he should work harder on things that matter". 

We investigated how much karma from Community posts was distorting how much karma users had relative to what would happen if the Community section karma hadn't been there, and relative to our personal "overrated-vs-underrated commenter" ratings. There was somewhat surprisingly not that much improvement from changing the weighting, so we decided to stop working on the project.

Ultimately, you shouldn't take a user's Forum karma has much correlation with their impact. It's quite easy to have a lot of impact with low karma, or to be mostly a terminally online person who doesn't get much object-level work done.

Hi there,

I think links to Google Doc sections are not automatically converted to links to EA Forum sections when one copy-pastes a published-to-web Doc to the EA Forum editor. It would be great if the links updated automatically, instead of continuing to point to the original Doc sections.

Currently, the EA Forum editor has 3 levels of headers, and a 4th one using bold. Google Doc has 6 levels of headers. It would be nice if the EA Forum editor also had 6 levels of headers, such that the structure of the Doc is not broken when there are 4th to 6th level headers (I have never used 5th nor 6th level, but 4th sometimes, and 5th seems possible).

4
JP Addison🔸
On the first paragraph: this is definitely something that bothers me a bunch, and I hear about often. Sadly it is quite hard to fix. We'd need a bespoke google docs importer to do so, and that's probably too large of a project. On the second: Noted.

Add a 😂 emoji reply!

1)

In links to tags, like this:

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/HqxvGsczdf4yLB9FG

Also add a human-readable (slug) part to the url, similarly to what you do with posts:

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/NhSBgYq55BFs7t2cA/ea-forum-feature-suggestion-thread

 

2)

If someone enters a link that doesn't have the human-readable part, like 

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/NhSBgYq55BFs7t2cA

then redirect to a url that does have the human readable part

 

P.S

I really can't think of anything lower priority than this :P but thought I'd write... (read more)

4
JP Addison🔸
💙

Didn't read through all comments so unsure if this was suggested already, but could the karma / agree votes be located at the bottom of comments rather than at the top (or both)? For very long comments (especially in gnarly threads) it's a pain to scroll up to agree/disagree vote, and it incentivises liking based on the author or first few lines rather than reading through.

Within the community tab 'New and Upvoted' seems to still be the same posts, month after month. Perhaps new should gain more weight, given the current posting frequency and upvoting?

Within-post bookmarks

I often start posts but they are too long to read them in one go and the fact that I have to do that (or forever forget where I am) creates a big ugh field for me. Solution: Within-post bookmarks! I think it would be amazing if we could mark where we are in a post and the next time, we can just click to get ourselves back there!

(FWIW, I think that's a major feature of printed media, which I have much less ugh feelings about reading. You can always put it away without it being annoying later on.)

3
JP Addison🔸
I expect this to be hard to get right, but I think it would in fact remove a major bottleneck to returning to a post. Claim: the hard part is getting people to set their bookmarks. Maybe we could do something automatic?
1
Chi
Not sure about the claim but possible! I certainly wouldn't say no to something automatic. But I think if setting it yourself is easy enough, it would still get a bunch of the value! I think if the feature was implemented in a similar way to in-line commenting on LessWrong, where you just hover over the correct line and it offers you a bookmark-button that you just need to click, that would be low-friction enough for people like me to use it. (I think anything that's two-click might be too much friction)
2
Larks
Would it be possible to track how far down the page someone had scrolled, and by default return them to that place the next time they visited?
2
JP Addison🔸
That's what I mean by something automatic. I'm not sure without trying it whether it'd be a terrible and disorienting experience that was wrong most of the time, or whether it'd be successfully useful.

The "hover over a username to see their profile preview" feature is neat. There appears to be a minor bug, however, wherein 5-digit levels of karma don't always display correctly in these previews (because the third digit gets omitted). Here's an example of an incorrect display:

And here's an example of a correct display:

I would love an option to switch off the total karma count from one's profile. I've found myself noticing that it can occasionally create perverse incentives.

4
JP Addison🔸
I assume this is about for your own psychology? My recommendation here is to use your ad-blocker to block out the specific element. I've just submitted a change that will make this uBlock Origin rule work: ###karma-info (Note the three #s)
1
Ren Ryba
Thanks, this is cool and I'll use it. I think more broadly, my comment is roughly equally motivated by three main things: my own psychology; concerns about an author's karma influencing readers' subconscious evaluations of that author's posts and opinions; and, specifically for people who work full-time in the EA community, a vague sense that it feels a bit strange to have a numeric score attached to what is in many ways a professional, and often philosophical, body of work. (The third point of course has an analogy with academic research, but I think that's also a problem with academia.) But since you gave me a solution, I'm personall happy. Thanks again.

It would be great to have some way to filter for multiple topics.

Example: Suppose I want to find posts related to the cost-effectiveness of AI safety. Instead of just filtering for "AI safety", or for just "Forecasting and estimation", I might want to find posts only at the intersection of those two. I attempted to do this by customizing my frontpage feed, but this doesn't really work (since it heavily biases to new/upvoted posts)

2
JP Addison🔸
You can do this! Filter by topics on the left hand side of the search page.
1
Tom Barnes
My bad, thanks so much!

There appears to be a bug where a question post cross-posted from LessWrong goes up on this Forum as a regular post, as happened here.

2
JP Addison🔸
I believe we fixed this here.

I'd expect clicking on my profile picture to take me to my profile (currently the click doesn't do anything) (but it does have a pretty animation)

4
JP Addison🔸
I just added this to a recent related improvement. Should be fixed when that Pull Request gets merged.

The default generated slugs for posts with non-Latin script titles are absolutely useless:

私たちは毎日、毎秒、トリアージに直面している - https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WvikY6ixzcwKtKveN/unicode-52

Generally, the slug should match the post title in some human-readable way, so that it is possible to see what the post is about based on the URL alone, without a title or link preview. A sensible way to do this would be to romanize the title if it is not in Latin script, producing something like:

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/WvikY6ixzcwKtKveN/watashi-tachi-wa-ma... (read more)

4
JP Addison🔸
Should be fixed on our next deploy: https://github.com/ForumMagnum/ForumMagnum/pull/7618
2
Eevee🔹
Yay, ありがとう!
2
Eevee🔹
Relatedly, the auto-generated audio narration feature breaks down for non-English posts. For example, in the Japanese post above, the narration skips everything except for the bits of English. The handling of this Spanish post is slightly better: all of the text, being in Latin script, is included in the narration, but the words are spoken as if they're English words.

We should be able to add tags to sequences and have them cascade to the posts in those sequences.

2
JP Addison🔸
We definitely want this, and have considered featuring sequences on topic pages more prominently.

It would be useful to be able to have a change log add-on that shows up as a banner on the top of a post (and ideally but this might be a bit spammy, notifies people who have read, or maybe upvoted or commented on the post) so that they know when a correction has been made. 

Many people may not go back to a post after reading, or notice the change-log (if the authors even include one) - and the changes can often be really important. 

Quick solution: Have a box where people can add their change log and make it a pinned comment (but only for the purp... (read more)

2
JP Addison🔸
Thanks for the suggestion, I've belated added to our backlog.

Wasn't sure where else to mention this – the search feature on the forum is pretty bad. I tried finding a post from Claire Zabel by searching "Claire Zabel". I couldn't find it because her username is actually "ClaireZabel"

3
Vaidehi Agarwalla 🔸
+1 I've found this problem a lot. Also the fuzzy search on the search bar is sometimes too fuzzy (e.g. the opposite problem)
2
David M
Re fuzzy search... I couldn't find this post. Search shouldn't be converting 'EA' into a separate search for the word 'effective' absent 'altruism'. Also it feels like it isn't weighting the title heavily enough relative to post body, since the correct title isn't far from my search query.
2
David M
more weird search behaviour  

it would be nice to exclude text e.g. the appendix / pre-amble / introduction from the "time to read" estimate.

E.g. in our upcoming post the time to read the core pieces is 22 minutes, but the total read time is showing 39 minutes (almost double) because of our lenghty appendix and some introductory context.

2
JP Addison🔸
Yeah, that makes sense. The issue turned out to be a pretty good candidate for someone to submit an open source contribution for.
6
David M
I have just submitted a PR for this. (and I have no association with Omega) edit: It was approved and merged 😊

I would like to be able to subscribe to notifications for sequences like this one: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/FxFwhFG227F6FgnKk

4
Sarah Cheng
Just letting you know that you can now subscribe to be notified when posts are added to a sequence. Hope this is helpful, and let me know if you run into any issues!
2
JP Addison🔸
Thanks for the suggestion! I have also wanted this. My suggested bad workaround is to subscribe to posts by the author, often for the duration of the sequence the author is only posting posts to that sequence.

There are some posts, for example this "EA Forum feature suggestion thread", the "List of EA funding opportunities", and "Propose and vote on potential EA Wiki articles / tags", which I think could be pages in their own right, findable via the home page's left menu. I make this suggestion because:

  1. These posts are harder to find, in my opinion, than they should be given that they're essentially living documents that'd benefit from having more contributors.[1]
  2. A comments section seems like not the best interface for handling suggestions/contributions.
    1. For insta
... (read more)

The "Library" page, accessible from the home page's left menu, appears to be a list of all(?) the sequences on the Forum. But the order in which the sequences are listed—I think it's just recency—isn't very friendly, in my opinion. My vision for this page has the sequences listed in order of (some combination of) importance and quality. This ordering could be determined by a site admin, or maybe it could be automated (e.g., based on the combined karma of each sequence's posts). Sequences are also filterable by topic in my vision: for this, sequence pages would probably need to be taggable.

Also, sequence pages don't appear to show up in the top right search bar. I think sequences should be searchable.

2
Lizka
Re Library page: I agree with and appreciate this suggestion. I'd be excited for that to be a list you can sort in different ways. I think it's on the list of things to prioritize, but I'll make sure.  Re top right search bar: I think they do, but they're at the bottom of the results, and in some cases that might get cut off. But you can also use the full search page for this, e.g.: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/search?contentType=Sequences&query=classic%20posts%20from%20the%20&page=1 
2
Will Aldred
Ah, I didn't realize one could search for sequences in this way, and I now feel silly for making my above assertion. Thanks for replying so quickly and for pointing this out.

Suggestion: Integrated search in LessWrong, EA Forum, Alignment Forum and perhaps Progress Forum posts.

1
Daniel_Friedrich
I recently made RatSearch for this purpose. You can also try the GPT bot version (more information here).

[I was inspired to suggest this by the downvotes on this comment, but it's a problem I've seen more generally.]

The agree/disagree voting dimension is amazing, but it seems to me like people haven't properly uncoupled it from karma yet. One way to help people understand the differences could be to introduce a confirmation box that pops up whenever you try to vote, that you can opt out of from your profile settings.

This box could contain something like the following guidelines:

  • Only vote on the karma dimension based on whether you personally benefited from re
... (read more)
[anonymous]8
2
1
1
Tristan Williams
Disagree. It's nice to have the space to talk about the idea for others, and I feel like both problems mentioned by both anon and Ren can be remedied by clearer communication: * Anon: if you want specific, let's say interpersonal, things to be handled in DM, you can specify it in the post. I'm happy to dm instead of comment if the author clearly communicates that's what they want. * Ren: just flag that you can't participate in the discussion in your post, and I think everyone will understand if you are absent, but tossing out a "philosophical hot take" and turning comments off sounds fairly negative to me, because there should at least be a convenient space to discuss it, removing that seeming like you're signaling you're putting out a PSA and not an idea you (or others in the comments) would like to form further through discussion and critique
2
Ren Ryba
Strongly agree. I came on this thread to suggest this. I have posted on the forum before, but I have recently developed some health problems (fatigue etc) that mean I can no longer afford the energy necessary to participate in comment discussions. This is the main reason why I am no longer posting. I would be far more incentivised to make future posts if I could turn off the options for people to make comments where I deem that comments would not add much value to the post (i.e. I would use this feature on lifestyle suggestions or resource recommendations, but not on philosophical hot takes).

I was going to write a short suggestion about profile wikis, but it ended up long so I made it into a post. In a picture:

This is my current frontpage, logged in and logged out

 

It would be nice to have a way to post sequences without having all the posts show up on the frontpage, we would definitely use it for EA Italy

3
Sharang Phadke
Thanks for this suggestion, we've put this problem a bit higher up on our backlog, since we noticed it affected a few different users in the last few months! (no specific timeline on solving it at the moment)
[anonymous]4
0
0

How long until we can bring Anthropic's Claude on as a moderator?

I'm finding him to be very good at demonstrating cognitive and emotional empathy for views that are in disagreement with his own, updating accordingly, and then gently proposing ways forward that incorporate both perspectives.

(Maybe a little too deferential at this point, although I expect there's less of that when he's moderating human discussion rather than talking to one human, plus of course it's a live debate in EA how much epistemic integrity to sacrifice for the sake of keeping the pea... (read more)

I'm planning to write a piece on animal welfare, as part of that post it will help to post a picture of a dead animal. I'd like to have it blurred until users choose to see it, is there a way to do that? 

Side note: I can't see anything about this circumstance in the user manual or guide to norms.

7
JP Addison🔸
No, sorry, we don't support that. It sounds like a very reasonable use-case though, and I'll add it to our tech backlog. In the mean time, I recommend a link to an off-site image hosting service.
3
Matt Goodman
Thanks, I appreciate it:)

Several serious posts are drowned out on April 1st each year. I half intended to write a round up of these to help them avoid being drowned out, but didn’t get around to it before the work week; now I’m requesting that the EA Forum team consider doing this. In future years (assuming your timelines are that long) I would also be in favour of having a separate section for April fools (like the community section) even though this dampens the humour.

We’re trying out moving our Italian translation of the EA Handbook to the forum, to see if participants of the next round of our virtual program prefer it that way compared to google docs. (most of the first chapter is now here)

  1. Is there a way to un-draft ~80 posts without taking over the home page for people that opted into seeing personal blogposts? For now, we’re just temporarily downvoting them
  2. Is there a way to have “Chapters” in sequences, like in https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/s/B79ro5zkhndbBKRRX, or is that hardcoded?

Thanks

1
Sarah Cheng
You'll need a site admin to help with both of these. Could you contact us with the details (ex. how you want the chapters organized)? Thanks!

One feature I really like on forums like Hacker News is the ability to traverse comments by having options to jump to a comment's parent, or next or previous sibling.

When you are deep in a gnarly comment thread, I find it useful to be able to hop up a couple of levels and then minimise a comment and its children

This is what comments looks like on Hacker News for example:

4
JP Addison🔸
You can do both of these things. You can click to the left of a comment to get to the parent comment, and then collapse by clicking on the minus icon next to the username.
1
Rasool
Cool thanks, I did not know about that first one. I note that that is different to how it works on substack comments, where clicking to the left of a comment collapses the parent comment rather than scrolling to it like here
2
JP Addison🔸
I did not know that, that's useful.

On https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/allPosts, clicking on a shortform expands it, but there is no way to unexpand/contract it

This is not the case with topic page edit and discussion, where clicking on the topic title toggles between expanding it and unexpanding it

Ideally shortforms could be toggled unexpanded in a similar way

Up/downvoting a post shouldn’t be possible within 30 seconds of opening a (not very short) post (prevent upvoting based on title only), or should be weighted less

2
David M
@JP Addison  are you open to me working on a PR that offers this to authors as a toggle-able option?
5
JP Addison🔸
LessWrong is thinking about this. I don't want to make it user toggle-able. My guess is that removing the voting from the top of the post that's more the direction I'm going. LW wants to try it for admins to see how they find it before shipping it further.

The link from linkposts like this one, don't work, I assume because the link needs to be prefixed with https://

Can this be added automatically if it is missing, or do linkposts need to go via https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/out?url=

Reformat all shortforms so they have agreevotes.

2
Ben Millwood🔸
Mine does, now, as does at least one other post that didn't before, maybe they're just global now?
5
Sarah Cheng
Yup, we updated all posts and shortforms to include agree voting today.

I unhid community posts on the main posts section  to see what would happen but now I can't rehide them. But I'd like to.

1
Sarah Cheng
You can re-hide them from that section by opening "Customize Feed" and setting "Community" to be "Hidden":
2
Nathan Young
I don't see an option:     And your image isn't showing to me.
1
Sarah Cheng
Oh sorry, a recent change to images caused a bug, but it should be fixed now. (You can fix your image by editing and submitting your comment.) You can add "Community" as an option by clicking on the + button and searching for it.
2
Nathan Young
It is not listed here. And I tried to resubmit my image. Still looks massive.
3
Sarah Cheng
Interesting, thanks for flagging this bug! It should be fixed now - please let us know if you run into any related issues.
2
Nathan Young
Though it only shows up at the start. If you search "community" it still doesn't.
2
Nathan Young
Also resizing images never works for me.

Reformat this comment section so that it has agreevotes. 

1
Sarah Cheng
Done! :)

(Semi-serious), since we care about the long-term future, denote years with a 10,000 year digit, so 02023 instead of 2023, like they do at longnow.org

You can subscribe to other users' new posts from their profile, but I would like to be able to subscribe to users' new comments which I don't see a way to do

I think authors of a post should be able to add the "community" tag to their post.

See also this, this, and this comments. The first comment thread includes a workaround: creating the post on the http://forum.effectivealtruism.org/topics/community page

4
JP Addison🔸
As an aside: I believe this will work right up until you submit it, but am not sure.
2
Lorenzo Buonanno🔸
A non-moderator account currently sees this for comparison I see this

On mobile, I think there's no way to remove your vote on your own comments. On desktop, I can just click my vote again, but on mobile the normal workflow is to tap to cycle between normal / strong / no vote, and I can't strong upvote my own comments, so I get "stuck" in the cycle.

edit: ok I think you can do it by just going through the cycle quickly enough, but I definitely struggled with this before, perhaps it depends on the latency of your connection to the server...

When a comment is deleted in such a way that leaves a "comment deleted" block, it has a little [+] to expand the comment, but it doesn't do anything. I would prefer if it wasn't there so I didn't feel like I had to click on it to check if there's something I missed.

3
Ben Millwood🔸
Also, probably voting should be prevented on deleted comments.

Can we add agreement karma to comments on all posts?

1
Sharang Phadke
By the way, this is now done
2
Nathan Young
Or all new comments at least.


@Matt Goodman  thanks for all your suggestions. I think they all make sense or have been suggested before, and we'll have to prioritize them against our other work!

I'd like to be able to hide the amount of karma and agreement points a comment or post has. I think seeing how many people have upvoted a statement affects how likely I am to agree with or upvote that statement. I think it makes me more likely to vote in accordance with social agreement, rather than whether or not I think a statement is true or well written.   I'd like to be able to turn this off from time to time. Strongly downvoted comments should probably still be hidden.

I think the UI for voting could be improved in the following ways:

  • The arrows for voting on Karma point sideways, not up and down. It's not immediately clear which one is upvote and which one is downvote.
  •  The explanation text about voting (the one that explains Karma, agree/disagree and strong votes) only appears when you hover your mouse over the arrows. This means you never see it on mobile, where there's no mouse.
  • the hit boxes could be bigger for arrows on mobile.

The formatting toolbar doesn't appear until after you highlight text. This means you can only format text after you've written it - you can't for example, select bold and have your text appear in bold as you write it. This is something I find unintuitive. It took me a a few minutes of looking for the toolbar and googling how to do it before I realised the toolbar only appears when you highlight text. I'd like the formatting toolbar to always be on the page when I'm writing. 

I'd like to be able to highlight a word or phrase in text I'm writing and Ctrl-V a URL link directly into that phrase. This is something that other platforms, like Slack do.

Yes, you can highlight a phrase and bring up the toolbar to add a link, but being able to do it immediately through a well known keyboard shortcut is easier.

5
Rasool
Ctrl+K is a pretty well-known shortcut, for example on Google Docs, and works here too
1
Matt Goodman
Thanks, I didn't know that one!

Can we put this page in the sidebar?

I noticed that adding a tag to a post in draft mode now automatically adds the parent tag. But it's not clear to the user why two tags are being added at once. This also contributes to the overtagging of posts.

On Wikipedia, the guideline is to tag pages with the most specific categories they belong to. So if category B is a child of category A, then pages that belong to both A and B should only be tagged with B, whereas pages in A \ B should only be tagged with A.

In general, I think the EA Forum should be more thoughtful about tags. If we want to replicate... (read more)

3
Sharang Phadke
Thanks, I think think this is good feedback. I recognize the way parent / child tags work now isn't ideal. We'll have to prioritize improving this against other things we could work on!
1[comment deleted]

When using search, the date on the search result card doesn't seem to always match up with the published date on the post itself.

For example, this post was published yesterday, 24th January, but when it appears in search it looks like:

which might be the date it was first created in draft form, and not published?

Which also leads to counter-intuitive things like:

2
Lizka
Thanks for flagging this! This does seem off; I've passed it on for triage & fixing.

Display a more detailed breakdown of karma and agreement karma by number of upvotes and downvotes rather than overall amount. 

I think that the weighted voting system is counterproductive overall (it creates perverse incentives, it ascribes false authority to users who are more prolific or who may have expertise in one area and poor understanding in others, and it is needlessly undemocratic) and makes it harder to meaningfully understand the karma of a given post or comment, but this could go someway in making the actual impact of posts and comments more legible. I think there is a difference between how to read agreement karma for a comment that has 10 agreement karma overall from, say, 8 2 point upvotes and 2 -3 minus point downvote versus one that has 10 1-point upvotes, and the breakdown of how a comment achieved its agreement karma is not currently legible, which makes agreement karma a much less useful indicator than it could be otherwise.

P.S.: Similar suggestions have been made below on how the karma and voting system can be tinkered with to make it more meaningful, but seems different enough to warrant a new top-level comment.

2
NickLaing
I agree. I'm amazed how quickly I have gone from adding 1 Karma to adding 4 now. Maybe voting could only be enabled after a certain amount of engagement, but it does feel undemocratic.
6
lastmistborn
Same here, I actually wasn't aware of weighted voting until I noticed I was able to do it. I don't think there's a problem with voting (even voting + flat rate strong voting seems perfectly reasonable to me) by weighing votes according to karma seems very high cost to very little or no gain
4
NickLaing
 I know. Look how easily you got to 5 Karma on this comment ;)

Couldn't see if someone already suggested this but:

  • Have a separate field for org name on profile 
  • Option to select if you're writing a post on behalf of an organisation or as an individual (this is very important imo often people write posts and it's not clear who they work for) 
    • Auto-tag with org name + "org updates" or similar tag
  • Organisation tag shows all the people who've listed org name on their profile 
2
Peter Wildeford
I’d like this
4
Lizka
Thanks for suggesting these, I'm passing them on. 

I'd like to be able to bookmark comments, in the same way you can bookmark posts. There's a lot of really, really well thought out and written comments, in some cases containing just as much value as articles, and I'd like to be able to bookmark a comment to come back to. 

I'd argue this is even more important than bookmarking articles, because articles have tags and titles to search for, whereas comments don't, and it's easy to loose track of what article and what thread the one you're looking for is contained in.

1
Sharang Phadke
Thanks Matt, noted!

It would be nice to be able to order search results by date and maybe some other features like karma.

(Probably has been suggested before but thought I'd add): A small indicator for the original poster of the top-level post in the comments. Like the microphone on Reddit.

1
Jørgen Ljønes🔸
Came here to suggest this
1
NickLaing
Love this!

If someone downvotes, suggest that they explain why

6
dan.pandori
I disagree and I downvoted this because explaining why you downvoted something is disproportionately likely to end up with me arguing with someone on the internet. I find this really unpleasant. I'm happy to have a rule for giving an explanation to you if I downvote your posts. I've talked with you as a person outside of internet arguments, so I'm not as worried about getting into a protracted argument. But as a general rule, I think I should be discouraged from explaining my downvotes so that I keep up my mental health. Separately, if this was a thread that had agree/disagree enabled I would just click disagree! The comment is fine, and I try to reserve downvote for things that are mean or grossly incorrect if agree/disagree is available.
3
Matt Goodman
Props for taking the time to explain, even though you don't like it!
3
Yonatan Cale
Upvoted since you explained why you don't like my idea, and I like that! :)
6
Yonatan Cale
Hey (:   To be clear, my feature suggestion is something like a popup reading "you downvoted this, consider explaining why" as opposed to "in order to downvote this, you MUST explain why".   The pain point I'm trying to solve is "I don't know why people down vote my comments sometimes and it makes me sad and confused". Maybe my specific proposed solution isn't good; my pain point remains, though   I also acknowledge that "explaining why I downvoted" can lead into arguing-on-the-internet which could be negative in a way that I want to avoid (and I don't want to drag people into).
3
dan.pandori
Oh for sure, I wasn't thinking you were implying making it a requirement. I was trying to say that even a nudge towards explaining downvotes is a nudge towards evil (for me). Maybe the net advantage of explaining downvotes would be good, but I personally should probably be discouraged from explaining my downvotes.

For Shortform:

  1. The link to get here from the main page is awfully small and inconspicuous (1 of 145 individual links on the page according to a Chrome extension)
    1. I can imagine it being near/stylistically  like:
      1. "All Posts" (top of sidebar)
      2. "Recommendations" in the center
      3. "Frontpage Posts", but to the main section's side or maybe as a replacement for it you can easily toggle back and forth from
  2. Would be cool to be able to sort and aggregate like with the main posts (nothing to filter by afaik)
    1. I'd really appreciate being able to see the highest-scoring Shortform posts ever, but afaik can't easily do that atm
3
Sharang Phadke
Thanks for the feedback! I do think we want to rethink our information architecture once we hire and onboard a designer, who is coming soon!

So, proposing that we give everyone equal voting power gives those on the forum with more voting power an incentive to lessen mine (by downvoting this). So how about this: we make the agreement karma democratic. That way we can see what people actually agree or disagree on and since it doesn't affect karma we can make it democratic without affecting those with disproportionate voting power.

EDIT: Three people upvoted this suggestion, one person downvoted this suggestion, the result is negative karma. What we see is that the downvotes contain a lot more voti... (read more)

Add Agreement Karma to posts.

This comment suggesting this feature got 32 Agreement with 9 votes:

2
WilliamKiely
Perhaps it's not clear whether adding agreement karma to posts is positive on net; but I think perhaps it would be worth adding for a month as an experiment. A counter-consideration is that many voters on the Forum may not understand the difference between overall karma and agreement karma still. Unconclusive weak evidence: This answer got 3 overall karma with 22 votes (at some point it was negative) and 18 agreement karma with 20 votes: (It's unconclusive evidence because while the regular karma downvotes surprised me, people could have had legitimate reasons for not liking the meta-answer and downvoting it. My suspicion though is that at least some people down-voted this in an attempt to "Disagree" vote in the poll.)
1
Pato
I agree that maybe people don't get it (like kinda me) but I think both things, posts and comments, should have it or neither.

When LessWrong posts are crossposted to the EA Forum, there is a link in EA Forum comments section:

This link just goes to the top of the LessWrong version of the post and not to the comments. I think either the text should be changed or the link go to the comments section.

When a user moves a controversial post to drafts, other readers get worried of censorship. Two recent examples: https://mobile.twitter.com/erikphoel/status/1559527499188654085 https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/sD4kdobiRaBpxcL8M/what-happened-to-the-women-and-effective-altruism-post?commentId=GpSneam3oSwaBYDWH

It might make sense to tweak the prose. Maybe let moderators add a reason, like for deleted comments (e.g. "spam", "moved to draft after a request from the author"), and for users write "the author of this post marked it as a private draft"

1
Sharang Phadke
Thanks for this suggestion and for the examples. I'm going to add this to our list, I do think something better than "this page doesn't exist" is probably better.

We should make it harder to manipulate your own comments' karma. My favoured approach would be to deactivate all voting on one's own comments. Also fine would be if by default, you strongly upvote and strongly agree with all of your own comments.

There was a good amount of agreement about this previously.

This has now been implemented. You cannot strong upvote your own comments, nor vote along the agreement axis.

2
RyanCarey
Great, thanks!
8
Stefan_Schubert
Thank you!
2
WilliamKiely
As to whether voting on overall karma for one's own comment should be eliminated, I would prefer deactivating voting to a default strong-upvote, however a third option that I think might be better would be to default-normal-upvote and disable strong-upvote on one's own comment. A fourth option (that I think I'd prefer the most) would be to retain the ability to strong upvote one's own comments while making the default for everyone normal-upvote or no-upvote (to preserve the ability to self-boost unusually important comments). Some other mechanism would be needed to prevent abuse of  this. For example, the mechanism could be that self-strong-upvoting only works if nobody else downvotes your comment. Or it could be that you could only self-strong-upvote your comment if you strong-upvoted less than 9 in 10 (or whatever fraction) of your previous comments.
2
Habryka
I think the key problem, both for upvoting and agreement-voting is that is that it hurts much more to have your comments in the negatives than it feels good to have your comments in the positives (and indeed, whenever I see a negative number, it feels really harsh and it does give me a sense that the community overall disapproves or disagrees with the content).  I think usually when a discussion is heated, I prefer the equilibrium where the two primary discussion partners have votes that cancel each other out, instead of an equilibrium where just all the comments are in the negatives. This includes the case where the person you are responding to is strong-downvoting your comment, and then I think it can make sense to strong-upvote your comment, in order to not give the false impression that there is a consensus against your comment.  I don't currently know a good way to handle this. I also dislike the recent change to disagreement-voting for that reason, and would prefer a world where we also make agreement-votes automatically self-apply, since my brain definitely parses a discussion with everything in the negatives on agreement voting as "there is consensus against this" as opposed to "there are two people disagreeing".
2
Elizabeth
I do think the thing where you can but don't automatically agree with your own post is confusing. Right now if I see something with one agree and one disagree vote it's ambiguous whether two other people voted, plus the comment writer surely agrees with themself, or if the one agree is from the comment writer so it's 1 to 1. 
2
RyanCarey
This problem won't arise if everyone strong-upvotes themselves by default.
2
Habryka
Yeah, but I think the problem is then that in the case of comments the consensus seems actually too dominated by people's initial strong-vote, and arguing against Eliezer on LW with a 10 karma upvote would make it feel like consensus is heavily stacked against you in a way I also don't like.
2
RyanCarey
Most people have strong upvote strength 3-7 though. Anyway, if this is a big problem, then just cap self-upvote strength around 5?
2
Habryka
I mean, that would just make the total karma system in 90% of cases worse. For example I think it totally makes sense for posts by Eliezer to start with that much karma, since I think there is a strong prior that they are going to be pretty good.
2
RyanCarey
I was thinking just for comments.
4
Habryka
Ah, yeah, I think that's a kind of reasonable thing to do. My primary hesitation is that it's not super intuitive and adds complexity, but it seems like one of the reasonable ways forward.
3
WilliamKiely
The main downside to everyone strong-upvotes themselves by default in my view is that it punishes new users (or those with lower karma and thus weaker strong-upvotes) too much. Maybe this isn't that important of a factor?
5
RyanCarey
To me, that sounds like a feature, not a bug, given how the influx of users has degraded average post quality recently.
2
RyanCarey
The third proposal seems fine to me, but the fourth is complex, and still rewards users who strong-upvote their own comments as much as the rules allow.
2
WilliamKiely
I strongly agree about eliminating the ability to agree/disagree-vote on one's own comment. I expect everyone to agree with what they write by default unless e.g. they say they're playing devil's advocate. Giving people the option to agree-vote on their own comment just adds unnecessary uncertainty by making it so people can't tell if an agreement vote on a comment is coming from the author or another user.
2
Stefan_Schubert
I agree. This has been discussed for quite some time (it was first raised three years ago) so it would be good to reach a decision.

I think it would be better if agree/disagree voting didn't follow the typical karma rules where different users have different amounts of karma. As it stands I often don't know how many people expressed agreement vs. disagreement, which feels like the information I actually want, and it doesn't make intuitive sense that one forum user might be able to "agree twice as much" as another with a comment.

3
Sharang Phadke
Thanks for the feedback. The tradeoff I see is that it could be valuable for folks to be able to express a strong vs weak opinion. Perhaps what we need is to give a better breakdown of how the votes went?